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He stopped, it would appear because the truck turned in front of him.

But when he entered the box at about 08:35:24, his exit was not clear:



He was anticipating it would be, but I'm wondering if what he could see from the driver's seat made him worry, for a brief moment, that it might not be when he got there, and slowed a little so that he wouldn't end up being forced to stop by vehicles blocking his exit.  And when he slowed the truck driver took his chance.

Neither was the exit clear for the silver van at 08:35:19 or the black one a couple of seconds after.

Now - I've always been led to believe that if the HC says "MUST", it's reflecting an actual law, but in this case it is not.

The HC says "You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear".   But the law doesn't - it says "a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."

So why does the HC say "MUST NOT"?  I wonder if the two van drivers have also been done?

I always thought it was a case re the exit being clear of "should not enter on the grounds that you must not stop", but hands up - who hasn't at some time entered a YBJ anticipating that they'd make it across, and with some of those times had a brief don't-stop-don't-stop-don't-stop worry about the traffic in front?




And that rejection is a mess.   It quotes the HC "MUST NOT" and in the next para says "should not". 

Gotta say though that it really does look in the video like the offending car slowed dramatically, almost to a complete stop, before the truck turned in front of him.

I find it to be quite incongruous that the Police et al can had out fines to dog owners whose animals conduct themselves in the same manner unless they pick the mess up, while horse owners/riders are exempt.

It's just another example of two-tier treatment of animals and their owners.

Think what cat owners get away with, and whether dog owners could do the same.

Imagine somebody owning a dog, and allowing it to roam free, jumping fences into people's gardens, defecating at will there, killing wildlife - do you think they'd get away with it?

Cats though, well all that is just fine.

Wondering about this - it's never happened to me, but it could have done, and I've certainly witnessed the scenario where it could have happened to somebody else.

Might as well use the drawing in the HC to illustrate.



So imagine you're the driver of the green car, or of a car behind him, waiting, allowably, to turn right because it's only oncoming traffic (i.e. the two silver MPVs) stopping you - the road you're turning into is clear.

But while you are waiting, cars in the opposite direction are turning left into that road, something causes the traffic to back up until it gets to the point where the road is full of stationary cars backed up to the junction.

Vehicles coming towards you, intending to turn left, stop, as they may not enter the box, or the lights go red.

At that point it is not oncoming traffic preventing you from exiting the box, it's that your exit road is not clear.  But it was when you entered the box.

Do all enforcement cameras record video, or would you end up with only stills showing you blocking the BJ?

If video is recorded, can one rely on councils/TFL fairly considering all of it, or might they be "selective" in order to pursue a penalty charge?


As I said, this is hypothetical, but I have been "green car man" at a junction where I've at other times been travelling the opposite way and turning left, stopped because the road I wanted to turn left into has become blocked, and seen some poor "green car man" left high and dry and wondered if he would get done for blocking the box.

Quote from: deanlad on October 11, 2025, 10:30:19 pm

AFAIA, I thought you Ould enter a YBJ if you are turning right...?

Yes that's fine, but he wasn't turning right.

He was the driver going straight on, who entered the YBJ when his exit was clear, but then was forced to stop because a truck which did not have right of way turned across in front of him?

Blimey.

If you do not understand some of the abbreviations or terms used, the Google is your friend. You can also do a search of the forum for any of the many similar cases to yours.

I'd been thinking that a "sticky" here with a glossary/list of abbreviations might be useful.

People like you and the other experts here already go above and beyond with the giving of time, so I'm not asking any of you to do it.

I'd be happy to go off and do the Googling (or "Binging") and put together a document, format it, spell-check it etc, if someone could give me a list of abbreviations to work on.

When done it would need one of the mavens to spend 5-10 minutes checking it to make sure I'd not put rubbish in.

What happened?