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Messages - Guvner

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Update: They have now cancelled the PCN. Thank you all for the advice.

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es I would suggest it might help to tell them you're In Portsmouth and  do not visit London regularly. and as you mentioned earlier, you were aware of the ulez zone and it's charge but not the conditions of 24hr period.

I have now included that in my appeal and sent it off. Will update this thread once I hear back from them. Fingers crossed. Thanks the advice everyone.

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are you far from London?  and do you visit often?

you may not be aware of all the rules if you live some way away and don't visit the area  this may be another point to add if true.

Is Portsmouth far away enough? And the fact that my dad rarely drives up there?

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How does this look for my appeal? I took inspiration from this. I will also attach the screenshot of my payment alongside the following:

To: Transport for London Appeals Department

Subject: Representation Against ULEZ PCN XJ41658941

Dear TFL Appeals Department,

I am writing in response to the PCN issued to me following my visit to London on 11/10/2024. Upon entering the ULEZ, I made the required payment in good faith and have attached a screenshot of the payment confirmation (reference number: W033281901) as proof of my intent to comply with ULEZ requirements.

At the time, I mistakenly believed the charge covered a full 24-hour period from entry rather than expiring at midnight. I was exiting the zone later that evening to go back home, unaware that the charge duration was fixed to the calendar day. Unfortunately, this led to the unintended issuance of the PCN, as the exit timestamp is 20 minutes after midnight.

I sincerely apologise for this oversight, which was an honest misunderstanding rather than an attempt to avoid the charge. I acted under the assumption that my payment would fully cover my time in the zone and only became aware of the reset policy upon receiving this PCN. I fully understand that it is my responsibility to be informed of such regulations, and this experience has been an important lesson for future visits.

Given the circumstances, I respectfully request that you exercise discretion and consider cancelling the PCN. I am grateful for any understanding you may extend.
Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
Kind regards,

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Hi all, looking for advice about this PCN my dad just got in the post today after driving to London last week.

We drove up there on the 11th, to which I paid the charge when we parked (got a payment reference screenshot if that is of any use, I asked for an email copy but to no avail. Reference is W033281901). We were under the assumption that this charge covers a 24 hour period once the car goes past the ULEZ border, instead of the fixed midnight time we have now found out the hard way.

Is there any chance with this? Perhaps telling them that we paid for the day before and thought it would cover us on our way back (20 minutes after midnight)? Thanks in advance.

PCN and screenshot here

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Done, thanks for the guidance throughout. I shall now close this thread.

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Meanwhile for the other PCN, they rejected it. So different responses for the different PCNs with the same appeal?

Also got more paperwork about my right to appeal further and how to do it, but seems generic.

What now?
You might as well file an appeal with the tribunal as the discount has not been reoffered, and the penalty stays the same even if the appeal is lost. You can file an appeal online at https://londontribunals.org.uk/ and you can add yourself to the case as your mother's representative, you will just need her to sign a letter of authority.

I think it has though if you look at the paragraph underneath it? I still have it when I go to pay online for both. Is it worth just paying them now? Their actual response seems to be identical to others on here recently, and if there isn't anything in that, then I think this is a dead end.

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Meanwhile for the other PCN, they rejected it. So different responses for the different PCNs with the same appeal?

Also got more paperwork about my right to appeal further and how to do it, but seems generic.

What now?

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Just got this back. I left my name at the bottom when my mother is the registered keeper of this vehicle.

Can I send in representations again? Or is it too late now as it is over 28 days now, and just pay it? Should still have the discounted rate right?

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I have now done that thank you. I shall update this thread when anything else arrives from them.

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here is that one, the file uploader on here isn't working so here is a Drive link.

As this one was sent first, the appeal I put above is what I sent to this one. I am asking for the one that started this thread whether or not to copy and paste it directly or to rephrase it slightly so they cannot copy and paste their response as well.

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The one that was posted on the Facebook group, same formatting as this PCN I believe but from the day before.

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Felt like my best bet though personally as my actual reasoning as to why would be ignored as they would say I am ultimately responsible in this case. Just submitted it so shall update this thread with the response.

For my other PCN, shall I send in that very same appeal format? Or change the phrasing here and there?

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Here is what I have:

Dear London Borough of Barking and Dagenham,

Having received your PCN, I would like to make a representation as the penalty charge exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of this case, based on the following provision within the relevant legislation and the resulting contradiction regarding the 28-day periods as follows.

Section 4 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 provides, insofar as is relevant, that:
A penalty charge notice under this section must –
(a) state–

(iii) that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

However, it has come to my attention that the PCN I received fails to comply with the statutory requirements. The PCN provides two different 28-day periods, one starting from the “date of notice” and the other one from the “date of service of notice”, which occurs two days later. Therefore, as this terminology is not interchangeable, this inconsistency raises further doubt about the validity of the PCN and the associated financial liability. While it might be thought that this error on the PCN is in the recipient’s favour as prejudice is not established, I refer you to London Borough of Barnet Council, R (on the application of) v The Parking Adjudicator [2006] EWHC 2357 (Admin) where the High Court ruled as follows:

40. Let me now turn to the present case. The two PCNs issued by the parking attendant in Barnet on 31st March 2005 both showed the date of the contravention. Neither PCN showed the date of the notice. The date on which the notice was issued ought to have been shown as a separate entry on the notice. On this ground alone, I hold that neither PCN achieved substantial compliance with section 66 of the 1991 Act.

41. Mr Lewis submits that even if there was non -compliance in this respect, nevertheless no prejudice was caused. PCNs should not be regarded as invalid. I do not accept this submission. Prejudice is irrelevant and does not need to be established. The 1991 Act creates a scheme for the civil enforcement of parking control. Under this scheme, motorists become liable to pay financial penalties when certain specified statutory conditions are met. If the statutory conditions are not met, then the financial liability does not arise.

42. In the present case, the two PCNs issued by Barnet on 31st March 2005 did not comply with section 66(3)(с),(d) and (e) of the 1991 Act. Accordingly, the requirements of section 66 were not satisfied and no financial liability was triggered either by the PCN or by any subsequent stage in the process such as the notice to owner.

In this case, the PCN has been served under the 2003 Act, but the principle is the same: the PCN is not substantially compliant with the requirements of the statutory scheme because it does not state what the Act requires it to state, and it follows that no liability to pay the penalty charge can arise. It is imperative that the PCN adheres to the clear and unambiguous requirements outlined in the legislation to ensure fair enforcement of penalty charges.

Considering the above, the only penalty that may be demanded is nil and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,
Name

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The signs look clear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MecNmzWPMuo

Did you not know what they mean, or did you just miss them completely?

After the first time I drove down here (following Google Maps and focusing on the road), I just did not notice these there after. I did notice the sign that came before these not allowing heavy vehicles except buses, but this one was halfway down the road, with the only alternative being a car park?

I am going to make an appeal trying to argue the difference in 28 day periods, as I believe that has more of a chance than what I have stated previously, because I understand that it does ultimately comes down to the driver, not the sat nav, and disregarding that first instance where I was focusing on the road with pedestrians crossing everywhere and another domestic vehicle in front of me as well.

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