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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / No turn left penalty notice
« on: July 10, 2025, 09:49:38 pm »
Hi everyone,
I have recently received a PCN for turning left in a road where the left turn was apparently prohibited.
I have challenged this PCN on the ground that when a turn is enforced, only horizonthal signs are not enough, and also a vertical sign should be provided (either a blue sign wih a white right arrow) or a "no turn left" red border circle sign (this is from what I remember and also chatgpt seems to agree). From neither the two pictures the council provided, nor from the video, I can see such a vertical sign. (I can see the sign on google map, but it was way behind the turn and there was much less vegetation in the google photo than in the evidences provided from the council)
This is the map: https://maps.app.goo.gl/8ZxFAcLSEMfK1drs7
Moreover the right horizonthal sign is warned out, and even if it can be clearly seen from the position where the camera is, from inside the car, I don't think was not very visible in a sunny day.
The borough rejected my appeal, but I am thinking to appeal to the traffic adjudicators. I still have the chance to pay the 50% PCN, but in this case I really think this PCN was not rightful given.
Below my appeal:
Online challenge received from Citizen
=====================================================================
Reason selected : 'I didn't see any signs or lines'
=====================================================================
-Question 1 : 'We have images showing the pay and display signs in Wricklemarsh Rd SE3 / Rochester Way SE3; please review them'
Answer : 'Images not displayed'
-Question 2 : 'Would you like to give us any more information or tell us about mitigating circumstances?'
Answer : 'Yes'
-Question 3 : 'Please explain in as much detail as possible why you think your PCN should be cancelled'
Answer : 'Dear Greenwich Borough,
At the location in question, there was no vertical mandatory road sign (e.g. the blue circular "turn right only" sign, Diagram 609 as specified in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016). Instead, the only indication present was a horizontal road marking (an arrow painted on the carriageway), which was severely worn and difficult to see.
According to UK traffic regulations, mandatory movement restrictions must be indicated by clear and visible vertical signage. Horizontal markings alone do not constitute lawful or enforceable signage, particularly if they are faded and not clearly visible to drivers. The lack of a vertical sign and the poor condition of the road marking meant that the alleged restriction was not adequately or lawfully conveyed.
I therefore request that this PCN be cancelled on the grounds of inadequate and non-compliant signage, which did not provide clear instruction to road users as required by law.'
-Question 4 : 'Would you like to upload any other documents to support your case?'
Answer : 'No'
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
I have recently received a PCN for turning left in a road where the left turn was apparently prohibited.
I have challenged this PCN on the ground that when a turn is enforced, only horizonthal signs are not enough, and also a vertical sign should be provided (either a blue sign wih a white right arrow) or a "no turn left" red border circle sign (this is from what I remember and also chatgpt seems to agree). From neither the two pictures the council provided, nor from the video, I can see such a vertical sign. (I can see the sign on google map, but it was way behind the turn and there was much less vegetation in the google photo than in the evidences provided from the council)
This is the map: https://maps.app.goo.gl/8ZxFAcLSEMfK1drs7
Moreover the right horizonthal sign is warned out, and even if it can be clearly seen from the position where the camera is, from inside the car, I don't think was not very visible in a sunny day.
The borough rejected my appeal, but I am thinking to appeal to the traffic adjudicators. I still have the chance to pay the 50% PCN, but in this case I really think this PCN was not rightful given.
Below my appeal:
Online challenge received from Citizen
=====================================================================
Reason selected : 'I didn't see any signs or lines'
=====================================================================
-Question 1 : 'We have images showing the pay and display signs in Wricklemarsh Rd SE3 / Rochester Way SE3; please review them'
Answer : 'Images not displayed'
-Question 2 : 'Would you like to give us any more information or tell us about mitigating circumstances?'
Answer : 'Yes'
-Question 3 : 'Please explain in as much detail as possible why you think your PCN should be cancelled'
Answer : 'Dear Greenwich Borough,
At the location in question, there was no vertical mandatory road sign (e.g. the blue circular "turn right only" sign, Diagram 609 as specified in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016). Instead, the only indication present was a horizontal road marking (an arrow painted on the carriageway), which was severely worn and difficult to see.
According to UK traffic regulations, mandatory movement restrictions must be indicated by clear and visible vertical signage. Horizontal markings alone do not constitute lawful or enforceable signage, particularly if they are faded and not clearly visible to drivers. The lack of a vertical sign and the poor condition of the road marking meant that the alleged restriction was not adequately or lawfully conveyed.
I therefore request that this PCN be cancelled on the grounds of inadequate and non-compliant signage, which did not provide clear instruction to road users as required by law.'
-Question 4 : 'Would you like to upload any other documents to support your case?'
Answer : 'No'
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]