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Messages - rocky

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: August 21, 2025, 03:03:30 pm »
@Hippocrates sorry, just to confirm — were you saying you'll share the salient parts from the previous case files that could help in drafting the appeal to the tribunals?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: August 20, 2025, 09:58:10 pm »
@Hippocrates

Sure, here's what I wrote in my appeal:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mYsV8N3TmXizJ6P8zZLkqcbwiV92pCnN/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=109164956722233729042&rtpof=true&sd=true


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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: August 20, 2025, 12:49:18 pm »
Today, I received the notice of rejection from Redbridge Council on my PCN appeal. See attached.

The letter says: "If drivers are unaware of when term times fall then they should not enter the area and should source an alternative route".

I had raised two other points on signage not being visible early enough for drivers turning right and signs covered by trees. But they did not respond specifically to those.

@Hippocrates - Seeking your guidance on the above.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: July 21, 2025, 11:59:24 pm »
Updated the draft to say that Term Time sign is proscribed and submitted the appeal. Thank you @Hippocrates!

I will update once I hear back.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: July 11, 2025, 07:29:01 pm »
Thanks @Hippocrates!

Just to update - My discount window ended right on the 14th day since the date of the notice (09 July, notice date: 24 Jun). Taken screenshot(attached).

It would be great if there are any pointers on what I must include on the appeal. Here's what I'm thinking of based on the suggestions:


Dear Redbridge Council,

Re: PCN

I am submitting a formal representation regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice.

The alleged contravention did not occur, as the signage refers to "term time," which is not clearly defined or reasonably knowable by a driver in advance. It is unreasonable to expect motorists to be aware of specific school term dates without additional clarification on the sign itself.

I therefore respectfully request that the PCN be cancelled.

Yours sincerely,

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: July 09, 2025, 01:55:46 am »
Thanks @H C Andersen for the quick response!

I had posted PCN as pdf in my post, attaching as images for reference.

There was a past case where @Hippocrates (@cp8759 and yourself) made use of the issue date and the served date to strengthen the argument (apologies if I misinterpreted it):
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/redbridge-pcn-code-31j-stopping-in-a-box-junction-horns-road-(a)-tfl-yellow-box-/60/


So, I wanted to be doubly sure of the last date for appeal. Based on my findings (Google search), it appeared that the PCN served date should be the second working day after the PCN issue date and I have 28 days since the beginning of the PCN serve date.

I used a time and date calculator, but I'm not confident I'm interpreting it correctly from a legal standpoint, so I wanted to get some clarification here. PCN Issue Date: 24 June 2025. I suppose the second working day would be 26 Jun and counting 28 days would be 24 July.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: July 07, 2025, 10:26:56 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on July 06, 2025, 09:47:20 pm
Forget the 14 day deadline as they will reoffer. Just recovering from jet lag etc. Prod me tomorrow please.

Hope you're feeling better now @Hippocrates. No rush if you're still recovering.

I also wanted to confirm what would be the deadline date for appeal. PCN was posted using first class Royal Mail and PCN issue date is 24 Jun'25. If I go by the second working day for the PCN "served" date, then it's 26 Jun'25 and adding 28 days would mean deadline for appeal is 24 July'25. Is that correct ?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: July 07, 2025, 12:38:11 am »
@H C Andersen Thank you for your response! I see your point and going with "Term Time Only" signage being a better line of argument.

From what I’ve seen in previous discussions on this forum, there have been multiple cases related to the same street, many of which were successful on the basis of the term time-only restriction, as @Incandescent noted.

However, I'm anxious, particularly due to the following two posts:

1. https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/redbridge-pcn-perrymans-farm-rd-53j-failing-with-a-restriction-on-vehi-5177/msg62264/#msg62264

See quote from @Incandescent:

"21. Even though that was not the case in the instant scenario, I am of the view that it is the motorist’s responsibility and not unreasonable to inform themselves of local school term times. In absence of knowledge, the motorist should look at the clearly proscribed signage as an indicator and take heed."


2. https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/redbridge-53j-perrymans-farm-road-pedestrian-zone-restriction/msg64869/#msg64869

From Hippocrates:

"No. Depends on how it is argued and which adjudicator hears it."


Makes me wonder whether that's a still a sufficient reason to appeal. Apologies if I misunderstood those quotes.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: July 06, 2025, 08:54:33 pm »
@Hippocrates Just checking - The deadline to pay the discounted rate is tomorrow, so I'd really appreciate it if you could take a quick look and let me know whether you think I have valid grounds for appeal.

Thanks in advance for your time and help!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: July 04, 2025, 02:39:51 pm »
Thank you so much for your response!

I am sharing the signs that I saw and those that I totally missed. The first screenshot shows two signs: the first sign circled red (blue school street sign) was covered by the tree branches and I must have overlooked that. The second one marked green was visible.

The second screenshot shows the image as I approach further. Both the enforcement signs are facing the other way and I didn't see it until I made the turn. There was not much traffic that day, so I didn't even had to stop for the oncoming traffic. So, I quickly made the right turn.

Also, the PCN letter states: The Penalty Charge of £160.00 is now payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice. While on the back of the PCN, it says "You may make representations before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which this notice was served".

The first statement doesn't seem right to me in that the count starts from the date of the notice instead of when the notice was served. Does this help my case ?

I received the PCN letter only on 30 Jun while PCN was dated 24 Jun. I see that the envelope says 1st class, yet it was delivered so late from the notice date.

Do I have enough grounds ? I have some travel plans, so I was thinking of holding out filing an appeal until later, which means I will lose the opportunity to pay the discounted charge. I'd really like some advice on whether I have reasonable grounds for appeal and worth taking a bet on not paying the discounted charge now.

Look forward to your advice. Thanks for all the help!



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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Redbridge, School Street, Perrymans Farm Road
« on: July 01, 2025, 01:56:57 pm »
Hi all,

I received a PCN from Redbridge Council for entering a School Street during restricted hours, and I would appreciate advice on whether there are any valid grounds for appeal.

Details:

Contravention Date: 18 June 2025

PCN Issue Date: 24 June 2025

PCN Received: 30 June 2025

Discount Period Ends: 7 July 2025 (14 days from PCN issue date, not receipt — is this correct?)

My Grounds for Appeal:

Inadequate Signage / Visibility Issues

The School Street restriction sign is placed at the entrance to the street but is not visible until after the turn has been initiated from Horns Road into the School Street.

There is a sign on Horns Road, but it's unclear which street it applies to, especially when turning right out of the Aldi car park.

According to Redbridge Council’s own website, vehicles should pass three statutory signs and two temporary signs to incur a PCN. In my case, I only passed one partially visible sign on Horns Road and one sign at the entrance, which is not visible prior to turning.

PCN Video footage shared by Redbridge:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/114fBq_k7lRK9avS8jsRhSFKO42s9cwEV/view?usp=drive_link

GMaps Route: https://maps.app.goo.gl/LiWZH1GFthRiiV7N6

Street View from Aldi: https://maps.app.goo.gl/AryEwCCXeS91rPVw8

Street view of the school street sign: https://maps.app.goo.gl/YJRG1WtFYqEWPXZd9

Video of dashcam from a different day but showing the school street turning:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eqIxso-DmTX56ue09eZcpPmIUByYDbIM/view?usp=drive_link

Video of walk footage from Aldi/B&M exit to turning right onto school street:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vn7C40n720f41EOmuht9Qx0Ud1__z7Pr/view?usp=drive_link


Unclear Term Time Dates

I was not aware that the date (18 June) fell within term time. There was no information or signage indicating term dates at the location.

The sign mentions restrictions during "term time," but there’s no easy way to confirm this when driving. Does lack of clear information about term dates constitute a defence?

PCN Timing / Discount Period

The PCN is dated 24 June 2025 but was delivered on 30 June 2025. The discount period ends on 7 July 2025, which is only 7 days from receipt. Is that in line with proper enforcement?

Question:
Based on the above, do I have valid grounds to challenge this PCN? I’m especially concerned about the signage being insufficient for drivers exiting Aldi and turning right. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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