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Messages - MachineGunJoe

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1
I have challenged on the grounds there is no contravention.

I have complained to the parking process manager who has replied same day and informed the apcoa cctv supervisors.

I don't think this pcn will be around for long and some arses will be kicked.

Brilliant- thanks so much @mrmustard. Much appreciated.

2
DVLA isn't an issue - only that someone has legal responsibility.

They should put the car in another keeper's name in any case.

Ah ok - I just did a cursory online search and Google AI suggested from a Dementia Forum that you had to send a copy of the LPA with covering letter to the DVLA. If that's not the case that removes one hoop to jump through.

Still no idea if a PoA is in place though. I have a feeling this may not be a straightforward as we were hoping...

3
Quote
I'm wondering if there may be a slight added complication in this because the registered keeper has dementia - which is why he's in a care home now - and doesn't recognise his wife anymore, so I'm not sure how he is going to be able to give his permission for someone else to make representations on his behalf. Assuming his wife can't do it as she isn't the registered keeper...

I am not sure how it may apply to this situation, but is there any sort of power of attorney in place?

No idea - they're neighbours of my relative and English isn't their first language.
If there is a PoA, I would bet it isn't registered with the DVLA.

4
I know this road well - I frequently play cricket off Chandos Avenue round the corner.

The video shows no contravention at all and seems to have been generated in error by the computer. Someone is meant to review the clips shortlisted for PCN by the computer but clearly hasn't in this case, or else was asleep while doing so.

@mrmustard may be interested as this is a Barnet case.

In terms of procedure, there won't be anywhere to confirm who was driving as the owner of the vehicle is responsible and the driver is not relevant.  But she can authorise another person to submit representations on her behalf (if she provides this authorisation in writing to the council).

This ought to be cancelled at the representations stage (and if it isn't Mr Mustard may have the ears of someone in Barnet council to see sense).

Thanks for your response and view. Funnily enough - or rather more sadly in this case - they were travelling back from Chandos Avenue visiting the registered keeper in the care home.

5
I am interested as another client came to me with such a PCN from 14 December 2025.

It has now been cancelled but confirmation letters are taking a month to be issued by Barnet.

I have driven that way and veered to the middle of the road about 50 times now. PCNs received? None!

If I email the parking process manager I can probably get this killed off at the same time as making representations in the name of the registered keeper, no-one else can do them.

My email is mrmustard@zoho.com

That would be really helpful thanks - I'll drop you an email.

I'm wondering if there may be a slight added complication in this because the registered keeper has dementia - which is why he's in a care home now - and doesn't recognise his wife anymore, so I'm not sure how he is going to be able to give his permission for someone else to make representations on his behalf. Assuming his wife can't do it as she isn't the registered keeper...

6
Asking on behalf of a family member.

Bit of context - this PCN was sent to the registered keeper, who is elderly and is in a care home. My relative lives a couple of doors down and helps the registered keeper's elderly wife and daughter with errands. On the day of the incident, they went to visit the registered keeper. The RK's wife said she was tired afterwards, so my relative offered to drive them home and he did.

The wife contacted my relative yesterday to say she'd received this PCN from their journey. I don't think any violation has occurred, but would like a more learned opinion please.

The road has width restrictions on both sides, with a bus gate in between. There are No Entry signs on each side of the bus gate, prohibiting non-bus traffic through it.

My relative didn't drive through the bus gate. He drove through the width restriction. They live on a side road immediately next to the width restriction, which means once through it, you have to filter right to turn into the road. The pictures supplied on the PCN supports this is what happened.

In the process of filtering right, you have to go over hashed lines and "Bus Only" road markings intended for the opposite direction of travel. I wouldn't say there is a bus lane leading up to or following the bus gate. If 51J is supposed to be failing to comply with a no entry restriction, then I can't see a contravention here. Am I wrong?

I also can't see anywhere for the registered keeper to say he wasn't driving and to pass it on to my relative to appeal. As the wife is elderly, we're not convinced she'll be able to handle the paperwork side of this or attend a tribunal.

Video of incident

Google streetview

PCN page 1
PCN page 2
PCN page 3
PCN page 4

Many thanks for your consideration.

7

It has happened before, more than once. The register will be corrected. In 10 years I've not heard of any council continuing to try and enforce in these circumstances, so I presume LT are efficient in letting Councils know.

Please let us know the case number and date of hearing.

Enfield Council seems to make the rules up as they go, so it wouldn’t surprise me…

Case number 2250338622 - hearing was yesterday, 6 October.

8
Updating to say I had my tribunal yesterday and my appeal was allowed.

However I’ve now found myself in a weird situation where the tribunal has incorrectly logged the outcome as “appeal refused”.

The direction says “Cancel the PCN” and the last line of the adjudicator’s comments says “The appeal is allowed.”

I called London Tribunals who said they will refer to the case manager to correct, however the letter I’ll receive regarding the outcome will say the appeal has both been refused and allowed.

My concern is the council will see “appeal refused” and send a letter demanding payment, causing wasted time and effort on my part to resolve. I’ve tried calling the council’s parking enforcement team twice - both times cut off after being on hold after 20mins.

Has this happened to anyone else?

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Updating to say tribunal is scheduled for 6 October. Will update with outcome after.

10
Understood. Will spell that out too - thanks for your advice.

11
A gentle bump as it’s been just over a week since I first posted. Would appreciate a sense check that what I’ve written in my first appeal is fine and there’s nothing more to add before I begin the tribunal process. Many thanks

12

yes they are talking bo!!ox it is impossible to "approach" the box junction from southbury road as the box starts at the beginning of S Rd. you can only approach from The town, Silver street or as the OP did London Road.
I think you will find that very oddly the left side is southbury Rd and the right side The Town. possibly the street name has been placed at the wrong point.

I will mention this impossibility in my tribunal appeal - but would it count for anything with the adjudicator as it was written in the NOR, not the original PCN?

13
The location given in the PCN is: The Town EN2 Box Junction

The NOR states: 'we would also state that....we consider your approach to the box junction to be from Southbury Road.' Now, they said this to counter your argument about turning right i.e. you weren't because this manoeuvre had already been completed. In which case, why is the location not given as Southbury Road as the contravention must have occurred wholly in this road!

Yes, they seem to have confused themselves there. At tribunal would they take that into account, or it is solely based on the details of the original PCN?

14
I bow to your vast experience, but am slightly surprised as there is a sign on the wall of Lloyds Bank, adjacent with where the OP stopped, saying Southbury Road.

Thanks for your suggestion, but the location is indeed correct. Bizarrely, the left side of the road is Southbury Road. The right side is The Town. If you look at the street view on the right side, you’ll see the address written on number 36. The box junction technically spans both roads.

15
Please also post the video, which is the evidence.

Apologies - I assumed the evidence would be viewed on the website given on the PCN. I’ve taken a screen recording as there doesn’t appear to be a way for me to download it.

Video evidence



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