Free Traffic Legal Advice

I didn't think you could make a subject access request in respect of prospective criminal proceedings?  (If you think about it it's fairly obvious why)

Where in Norfolk did this alleged offence occur?  (I live there so I'm curious what stretch of road it is)

I suppose you will just have to wait until you here back from them.  But I suspect that before they reply you will have passed the deadline for accepting a course or a fixed penalty and points.  You will probably have to decide on a course of action before you get theri reply - if they reply at all.

That's what was advised so I've followed the suggestion...

That all said, I thought about what you said about the response from the police probably not coming before the deadline, meaning I'll incur court costs unless I choose the course or fixed penalty and am going to opt for the course (begrudgingly) and I'll be fitting dash cams imminently.

This all took place somewhere around the Orwell Bridge in Ipswich (I know the correspondence says Norwich but it's actually Norfolk and Suffolk constabulary Central Ticket Office who is the point of contact.

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I've put in a request for information as directed by one of their agents -

EDIT: Sorry if you saw my earlier answer asking what you want. I missed your attachment.

How do you know this evidence exists?

I doubt very much whether the police will comply with your request even if it does. Video evidence is notoriously difficult to secure even in the event of a trial.

To gather this evidence will cost the police time and money and the idea of a fixed penalty is that it saves  them and you both of those.

I wish you luck but I believe your request will fall on deaf ears. But do let us know what happens so that we can advise others.

No problem - I don't know if the (video) evidence exists - I only assume that it does and hope that they would provide it to me. That said, re-reading the statement, I cannot see how the sparse information that has been provided would be enough to lead to prosecution - only under circumstances where a vehicle has moved into a lane that I'm already in would I have been likely to have approached it at a higher speed than it was travelling. Additionally, I'm particularly careful when driving my campervan - as mentioned, it's 3+ tonnes and doesn't slow down as efficiently as a normal car due to it's mass - I'm aware of things like this enough so to not drive in a way that would increase the potential for an accident. Furthermore, while my dog is secured in a harness that connects to the seatbelt, I absolutely wouldn't want any harm to come to him - so extra caution is applied when he is in a vehicle with me.

There's also a lack of clarity around the undertaking statement - did I undertake or didn't I? It doesn't say either way. Did I move back into lane 2 leaving very little distance between my vehicle and the police vehicle - me being in front or behind it? If I did undertake, I would want to see the speed that the police vehicle was doing at the time of the undertaking and my moving back into lane 2 (IF I did undertake and move back into lane 2) as I wouldn't have done so leaving insufficient space between the 2 vehicles - there is a potential for the police vehicle to have sped up after I had undertaken - resulting in my not leaving a safe distance between vehicles.

I think the undertaking topic is (to a certain degree) a moot point as it is not officially an offence from my understanding - unless it has been done in a way that suggests driving without due care and attention - again...I'm not saying that I didn't undertake, I just don't remember. However, how the incident has been described simply doesn't describe my driving style - especially the before and after the alleged undertake.

I'll certainly update once I know more - I'll also write to the address that I have in the correspondence as a back up to the online request that I've made.

Quote from: Dr Tripwire on June 27, 2025, 10:00:45 am

...In this case, the vehicle displaying registration mark ###### was found to fast approach a police vehicle travelling in Lane 2. When very close to the rear of the police vehicle, the subject vehicle then moved into Lane 1 to undertake, before quickly cutting back into Lane 2 without leaving a safe distance between themselves and the police vehicle.

Additional information - I was in a campervan which I don't drive any faster than 60mph where permitted, I had my dog asleep by my side and had left home with ample time to get to my destination - the offence described just doesn't sound like something I would have done, especially as I am aware of the stopping abilities of my 3 ton vehicle and I would assume that the vehicle in question was an unmarked police car.

Does this sound like something you would have done?

If you are convinced that you would never drive like that you might want to consider 'phoning them and politely asking what evidence they have.  If they have photographic or video evidence you could ask them if they could confirm whether the vehicle matches your camper van.  It could be a mis-read number plate or clone.  Or it might be your camper van.

[Edit:  As others have already explained you aren't entitled to see any evidence at this stage, but that doesn't stop you asking if they could help you]

If there is no video or photographic evidence it will be your word against one or two police officers.

Before you 'phone them see what others here advise.  There is a risk that if you do 'phone them they will interpret it as a challenge against the allegation and you'll end up at trial anyway.

I would be the first to admit it if there was a chance of me doing this - the only thing that comes to mind is that either the vehicle in question moved into lane 2 without seeing that I was already in lane 2 and travelling faster than it and as a result I moved into lane 1 - what is not clear from the information provided is whether I did actually undertake or not In this case, the vehicle displaying registration mark ###### was found to fast approach a police vehicle travelling in Lane 2. When very close to the rear of the police vehicle, the subject vehicle then moved into Lane 1 to undertake, before quickly cutting back into Lane 2 without leaving a safe distance between themselves and the police vehicle..

I genuinely don't recall this supposed event - if it happened, I haven't remembered it happening and would accept that fault and whatever penalty is applied.

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it seems to me that I am being asked to pay for something that I don't think I did and that the only way I can see evidence of the alleged offence is to take my case to trial

You don' have to take it to trial. If you see the evidence and accept he allegation, you can plead guilty. But by then the option of a course or fixed penalty will no longer be available. The evidence is unlikely to be much more than a statement from the officer explaining what you have summarised.

It seems they've told you what you have allegedly done. The ball is in your court. You either accept any offer they may make or have the matter dealt with in court.

Is an officer's written statement of events considered as adequate evidence for a driving offence? It would be surprising to hear that this is all that it takes, given that in this day and age, police vehicles will most certainly have dashcams fitted and could provide video evidence.

The only sure way to be provided with evidence is to opt for a court hearing. Then you will be provided with the evidence the police intend to rely on to convict you. The police have no obligation to provide any evidence if you want to accept one of the other two options, and usually won't. You can ask them if they will give you an idea of what you are said to have done, but that's about it.

I don't know whether the police really have used the term "appeal" but at present you have nothing to appeal against. If you opt for court you can either plead guilty (if you accept their evidence) or not guilty (and face a trial).

Even if you plead guilty in court, the cost will be around three times (as a minimum) the cost of either the course or fixed penalty. If you are found guilty following a trial you will see no change out of £1,000.

Have you any idea what this might be about?

As an aside, PCNs are not used for speeding or careless driving offences.

Thanks - I understand that there would be no need for evidence of the alleged offence if I am admitting to it - it seems to me that I am being asked to pay for something that I don't think I did and that the only way I can see evidence of the alleged offence is to take my case to trial (not appeal - apologies), during which time I will have forgone the right to accept the allegation and will then be faced with court costs. It seems to me that I am being held over a barrel!

With regard to the information I have been provided so far, this is the redacted version -

With reference to the enclosed Notice of Intended Prosecution/s. 172, a Police Officer has determined that the offence of Drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road/ in a public place without due care and attention has been evidenced.

In this case, the vehicle displaying registration mark ###### was found to fast approach a police vehicle travelling in Lane 2. When very close to the rear of the police vehicle, the subject vehicle then moved into Lane 1 to undertake, before quickly cutting back into Lane 2 without leaving a safe distance between themselves and the police vehicle.

Additional information - I was in a campervan which I don't drive any faster than 60mph where permitted, I had my dog asleep by my side and had left home with ample time to get to my destination - the offence described just doesn't sound like something I would have done, especially as I am aware of the stopping abilities of my 3 ton vehicle and I would assume that the vehicle in question was an unmarked police car.

Hi


I recently received a PCN for driving without due care and attention.


While in the past, I have inadvertently driven above the speed limit and received a PCN and have put my hands up to the offence, in this case I genuinely do not believe the claim by the police that I drove without due care and attention, therefore I don't accept the allegation.


I have sent back the form that asks if I was the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence to confirm that I was.


Subsequently, I received a letter giving me three options:


Attend a "driver awareness"course
Pay a fine of £100 and accept 3 points on my licence
Appeal the allegation through the magistrates court


Before I respond to this letter, making my choice, I would like to see video evidence of the alleged offence as I've not been provided anything (unlike with speeding offences where you're given a link to view the photo that the camera captured).


What is the best course of action to take in this instance? I don't want to accept liability for something I don't think I've done and certainly not without proof.


I also don't want to appeal this through court without having proof provided prior to the appeal.


Am I entitled to evidence before I make my decision to take this to appeal?


Thanks in advance.