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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Bristol Whiteladies Road PCN 02 Parked or loading/unloading
« on: August 29, 2025, 10:45:46 am »
Quote from: H C Andersen on July 09, 2025, 10:46:29 pm
I was parked in a marked parking place in which was situated a single yellow line. The only traffic sign displayed in the parking place was to the following effect:

P&D Parking Mon-Sat 9am to 5pm

The alleged contravention was 'Parked or loading and unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading and unloading restrictions are in force.'

I invite the authority to refer to page 171 of Chapter 3 of the Traffic Signs Manual, in particular Figures 13.51 and 13.52 which show the form of traffic signs prescribed to convey the restriction implied by the alleged contravention.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

The council has failed to place the mandatory traffic signs to convey such a restriction and therefore the contravention could not and did not occur.

Given that the CEO issued the PCN without the required traffic signs being in place and that in the first instance the authority rejected informal representations, I anticipate that being faced with the legal realities might come as a shock. Nonetheless, I caution the authority against simply falling back on ill-founded received wisdom and rejecting these representations out of hand because I would have no hesitation at submitting a claim for costs pursuant to an inevitable allowed appeal at tribunal.

Hi Andersen and all,

Thanks for your support. I submitted this formal appeal word-for-word and today received a response from Bristol City Council, that they have cancelled both of my PCNs.

Quote
We refer to the challenge made by you in connection with the issue of the above Penalty Charge
Notice (PCN).

We are writing to inform you that, due to an error on the part of the Civil Enforcement Officer, the charge has
been withdrawn, and the case is now closed. The section your vehicle was parked on is a Pay & Display
bay. 

Bristol City Council sincerely apologises for any inconvenience this may have caused.
We can confirm that you will not be contacted again in relation to this notice.

Yours sincerely 
PCN Appeals Team
Parking Services


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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Bristol Whiteladies Road PCN 02 Parked or loading/unloading
« on: July 09, 2025, 09:11:13 pm »
Hi all, I've just received the notice to owner - see link for photos:   https://imgur.com/a/WxBZpG1

This is the draft appeal I intend to submit - anything you'd suggest to add/remove?

Quote
Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing this formal representation against PCN BS28513342. My appeal is based on the statutory ground that: The contravention did not occur.

The contravention description is:

02 Parked or waiting/unloading where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.


So, I believe the council must demonstrate that:

There was a waiting restriction at the location; AND

There was a loading restriction at the location.


I will now outline the main reasons why I believe that the contravention did not occur.


Reason 1)   The officer’s photo of the contravened sign is not relevant

The civil enforcement officer has attached a photo to this case, showing the contravened sign “No Loading, Mon-Fri, 7-10am, 4.30-6.30pm”. This sign is placed about 8 metres north of where my car was parked on Whiteladies Road. This sign is placed next to the Double Yellow Lines on Whiteladies Road, hence the No-Loading restriction and kerb blips applies to the Double-Yellow lines, and not where my car was parked (on a parking bay with a single yellow line).


Reason 2) Improper signage

The signage does not follow regulations. My car was parked in a parking bay, directly under a sign the shows Pay & Display Parking Restrictions “Mon-Sat, 9am-5pm”. There is no mention of a waiting or loading restriction on this sign. You can see the dashed white road paint marking the parking bay. This bay has a yellow line through it and kerb blips, but there is no accompanying signage to define the restriction times of waiting and loading.


I would like to refer you to the GOV.UK Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter 03: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf


See page 171, Section 13.18. The bay is a shared-use bay, and the road markings and signage must follow Schedule 4 and Schedule 7 of Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/contents


The bay is a shared-use bay. It requires:

1)   A white panel traffic sign conveying the parking restrictions - of the form at Item 2, Part 4 of Schedule 4  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4 (For the parking restrictions.)

2)   A yellow panel traffic sign of the form at Item 1 of Part 3 of Schedule 4 (For the waiting restrictions)

3)   A white panel traffic sign of form at Item 1 of Part 4 of Schedule 4 (For the loading restrictions)

4)   A yellow line of the form at Item 2 of Part 4 of Schedule 7: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7 (For the waiting restrictions)

5)   Kerb markings  (kerb blips) of the form at Item 4 of Part 4 of Schedule 7 (For the loading restrictions).


The mandatory traffic signs of 2) and 3) are not present, and so the yellow line in 4) and kerb blips of 5) can not reasonably enforce any loading or waiting restrictions. So, the contravention did not occur, because there was no such loading or waiting restrictions in place at the position of my car.


Reason 3)Evidence from the Bristol Council website

The attached photo shows a section of the map of the Clifton East Residents Parking Scheme area, listed on the Bristol City Council website. The exact location of my car is marked on the screenshot. There is no mention of a waiting or no-loading restriction applied to this parking bay. I believe this is why the mandatory traffic signs mentioned before are not present – this bay was intended to have only parking restrictions, so I believe the parking officer has made a mistake here.


For these reasons, the contravention did not occur and this PCN was made in error, and I trust that you aim to have the PCN to be cancelled at the earliest convenience. Thank you.



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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Bristol Whiteladies Road PCN 02 Parked or loading/unloading
« on: June 26, 2025, 10:21:18 am »
Hi all,

Thanks for all of the advice. It is relieving to know that this PCN is not enforceable, I had suspected this was the case but a rejection of my informal appeal had me second guessing myself.

Quote from: H C Andersen on June 13, 2025, 10:53:35 am
I am curious if I do have any grounds for a formal challenge in this case

Yes. The contravention did not occur.

The contravention description is:

Parked or waiting/unloading where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.

Therefore the council have to demonstrate that at the relevant time:

There was a waiting restriction at the location; AND
There was a loading restriction at the location.

See page 171, s13.18  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

It's a shared use bay. It requires:
A white panel traffic sign conveying the parking restrictions - of the form at Item 2, Part 4 of Schedule 4  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4

A yellow panel traffic sign of the form at Item 1 of Part 3, and

A white panel traffic sign of form at Item 1 of Part 4.

And a yellow line of the form at Item 2 of Part 4 of this Schedule https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7

And  markings of the form at Item 4 of Part 4 of Schedule 7.

But it doesn't.

It has the markings but not the mandatory traffic signs.

They might huff and puff and deny and weave and bob, but they'd lose at tribunal IMO.

Thanks for this. In this case I will await the notice to owner to come through the post before submitting a formal appeal. I intend to use all the arguments in this comment, some of the photos I’ve supplied, and screenshots of the Bristol parking restrictions map. I’m hoping all of this is enough for a formal appeal (and going forwards if it comes to that), would that suffice? I’ll double check the draft here one last time just before I submit it (once the notice to owner comes through)

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Bristol Whiteladies Road PCN 02 Parked or loading/unloading
« on: June 13, 2025, 08:28:07 am »
Quote from: stamfordman on June 13, 2025, 12:06:17 am
Let's see your challenge and their rejection.

There are two things:

- Is it in a controlled parking zone where entry signs control single yellow lines? I can see no waiting  time sign on that yellow line.
- If so is the no loading restriction clearly marked?

On a quick Look all I can see is a pay and display zone nearby but not where you were.

The yellow line restrictions must be established before any qualification of loading is applied (by that ridiculous sign).

Hi,
- It isn't a controlled parking zone and there are no entry/exit signs. It is in a residents parking scheme area but this specific bay is pay & display.

My informal challenge was this. Do mind that this is quite weak and I am not surprised it was rejected, I assumed the no-loading had incorrectly been applied to the bay so I thought it was a mistake on the officer's part:

Quote
The restriction sign shown in the officer's photo does not apply to my car. My car is parked in a parking bay for Whiteladies Road (RingGo number 2596) which has different restrictions, see the attached photo. The parking machine is visible in my evidence, next to my car. You can also see the dashed white paint lines on the road in the officer's evidence, marking the parking bay. The parking restrictions for this bay apply from 9am. Since the PCN was issued at 7.30am, this makes the PCN invalid, as my car was parked legally and outside the restricted hours.

Their response:

Quote
Taking into account your reasons and having reviewed the facts surrounding this contravention we are of the opinion the notice was issued correctly as your vehicle was observed parked or  loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in  force. 
We note your comments made, however, the single yellow line and the kerb flash confirms that  there are restrictions in place and it is the responsibility of the driver to adhere to the regulations in
place: [photo of car]

It is the responsibility of the driver to ensure when parking the vehicle it is parked correctly and
legally. In view of the above we can see no justification to withdraw this PCN. 

I perhaps naively parked in the same spot a few days later as I assumed this PCN had been in error, I received another PCN on that day claiming I had contravened a no-loading restriction at 5.18 pm again. This is the appeal that I sent with the 2nd PCN (I am still awaiting a response):
Quote
The loading restriction sign supplied by the parking officer does not apply to the section of road my car was parked within. I was parked at the bottom of Whiteladies Road (RingGo 2596), directly underneath a parking restriction sign that displays “pay and display parking between 9am-5pm.” On this sign, and on the ticket machine below it, there is no reference to the No Loading restriction further up the road, only that a valid parking ticket must be bought and displayed between 9am-5pm. The No Loading restriction directly North of the parking bay is active from 7am-10am and 4.30pm-6.30pm – timings that contradict the parking pay & display window of 9am-5pm. You should not be able to pay for parking in this bay between 9 and 5 if parking is prohibited until 10am and after 4.30pm. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the No Loading restriction does not apply to the clearly signposted 9-5 parking bay I was parked within but instead applies to the section of Whiteladies Road north of the parking bay. Furthermore, the No Loading sign is not within the bounds of the parking bay but further North up Whiteladies Road. In addition to the on-street signage, Bristol City Council’s website has a map for the area’s relevant parking restrictions (Clifton East Residents Parking Scheme ((CE RPS)) – which clearly states that the relevant car parking bay I was parked within (marked with a green X on the screenshot) at the bottom of Whiteladies Road is NOT a no-loading zone (screenshot of map attached), and the only restrictions that apply are pay and display between 9am-5pm. Based upon the placement of loading restriction signage away from the parking bay, 9-5 parking restriction signage directly within the bay, plus corresponding information on the BCC website, I was parked legally within the lines of a 9-5 pay & display parking bay

^ still waiting a response for this informal challenge for the 2nd PCN. The first PCN is at the formal challenge phase.

Quote from: Incandescent on June 13, 2025, 01:31:53 am
The loading restriction sign is quite ridiculously placed, and as it stands, would only apply to the double-yellow lines, because DYLs have an exemption for loading unless signed as restricted.

The bay you were in needs its own sign, although I do see faint yellow kerb blips on the bay, but anyway the times on the loading restrictions sign overlap with the parking times.  Having said that,  this is irrelevant to the time you parked, which was outside the times on the parking sign. Clearly the single yellow line has restriction times and also loading restrictions as there are kerb blips. With no sign, it must be within a CPZ. However, where you parked is not in the Central CPZ, it is in the Clifton East Residents Parking Zone.

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/files/documents/456-clifton-east-rps-area-map/file

There is nothing for the bay where you parked to tell you that there is a loading restriction there. The DYLs with the sign are clearly marked on the map but one can't zoom in enough to see what is in the little boxes. Maybe a downloaded copy may allow you to see.
Indeed it is not within the CPZ. I assumed the no-loading applied to the double yellow lines. I have attached a photo of the bay where I parked on the Clifton East parking map (marked with green X) which is at the far bottom right of the link you sent. There is no mention of no-loading at that bay:

https://imgur.com/a/E4CEUjU

For reference here is where I got the image from:
https://imgur.com/BTy4hpM

Looking at the exact bay in Google Maps history (2014) the exact bay was indeed a no-loading area, see here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/h96qk8hAR7A8jarX8

but this was changed in 2015 where we now have the pay & display bay and the no-loading sign moved to where it is now. Is there a chance the yellow lines have not been properly removed?

Interestingly, I've also attached a screenshot of a different section of the same road (Whiteladies Road) about 0.5km away where it is clear there is a no-loading restriction AND parking restriction, both on the map and on the parking signs. But in that case it would be obvious, as 1) the signs are on top of each other, and 2) the timings do not overlap. This is an example of the sign I would expect to see on the same road (Whiteladies Road, 0.5km north of the bay I parked in): https://maps.app.goo.gl/MHCqNf2jz8RCrAkaA

with this being marked on the map from the Bristol website:

https://imgur.com/a/WxqaUNV






I am curious if I do have any grounds for a formal challenge in this case and what I could say. If it is somehow a no-loading area and a parking bay, then it is not clear and this is amplified by the overlapping hours of operation surely?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Bristol Whiteladies Road PCN 02 Parked or loading/unloading
« on: June 12, 2025, 11:36:26 pm »
I received this PCN on Whiteladies Road, Clifton, Bristol, at 7.30am in the morning, for contravention code 02 Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force

Please see the following link for the location:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/i9MdDBgpb17yNrka6

The car was parked directly underneath a sign that stated the hours of parking restrictions (9-5pm) but no mention of a no-loading restriction from 7am-10.30am. The evidence given by the officer shows the my car parked in the bay, and also a separate photo of the sign/restriction i contravened. This sign is about 5-10 metres north of the parking bay and quite low down, stating the separate no-loading restriction. Here it is: https://maps.app.goo.gl/raPtaav4eivC7xZR7



 If you move a little left on google maps you'll move back to the first google maps link showing the bay I was parked within and the 9-5pm sign.


I submitted an informal appeal on the website but this was rejected (due to my lack of knowledge on wording and how to appeal). I assumed the officer made a mistake and I don't think i explained my side very well.

Their stance is that the parking bay does have a yellow line going through it, and there are yellow kerb strips, so there are restrictions in force. They reiterated this photo of my car as evidence:

My stance is that the signage is unclear. You should not be able to pay to park in this bay from 9-5pm if the no loading restrictions are active from 7-10 am and 4.30-6.30pm. Furthermore, I usually see parking signs with multiple restrictions laid on top of each other on a signpost, and not with overlapping times, to make it clear. I would argue that this could even be misleading due to the placement of the no-loading sign itself being away from the parking bay sign.

For this reason, I assumed that the no loading restriction did not apply to my bay but instead further up the road. And that because of the confusing and conflicting signage, the yellow lines were just faded and not removed properly by the council when it became a parking bay a few years ago. Plus, Bristol council have a map of all of the parking restrictions in different parts of the city, this is on their website:

https://www.bristol.gov.uk/files/documents/456-clifton-east-rps-area-map/file

The bay I parked in is on the far most bottom right corner of the map. This is the purple bay in the screenshot attached.

There is no mention of the no loading restrictions for my bay, only the 9-5 restriction

Stupidly I assumed this PCN was in error so I parked there again a few days later and got the exact same PCN contravention (02 no loading) at 5.15pm. Once is a mistake by the officer, twice must mean that perhaps they are right? And my informal speak was rejected.  Please advise if I have any grounds for a formal appeal, or if I should just pay the PCNs if I'm missing something?

Thanks


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