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Messages - davec

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Just to keep the thread updated. Agreed for @cp8759 to represent at the tribunal.

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Draft representation:

Dear Liverpool City Council,

In the first instance I invite you to cancel the penalty charge based on the following mitigating circumstances. On this occasion I was under serious stress at my day job, and that it was my first shift of my new evening job which is why I was in the city centre, I seldom drive in the city centre and was focused on getting to my new place of work on time, by way of supporting evidence I refer you to the email welcoming me to the company at LINK1 and my shift schedule at LINK2.

The email is dated June 2023 which is when I joined the company and then proceeded to train with the managers. My shift on the 12th September was her first solo shift after I passed my training.

I further draw your attention to the decision in Branislav Baca v Portsmouth City Council (PO00033-2309, 17 November 2023) available from LINK and on the basis of that decision, the PCN should be cancelled in any event.

Yours faithfully,

I will email you a copy with the relevant links.

Happy New Year! Hope you've had a fantastic festive period. Thank you so much for the email, as you know I submitted the representation that same day.

We've received their response today and of course, they've rejected the formal representation ::). I've attached the response to this post.

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Does she have any documentary evidence she can use to confirm this? Either something from her day job, or maybe something confirming it was her first shift at her evening job?

I'm sure she has something regarding this being her first shift at her evening job, she should have an email from the employer to be able to provide.

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I've asked her, and all that she can offer is that she was under serious stress at her day job, and that it was her first shift of her new evening job which is why she was in the city centre, and finally that the roadworks were seriously confusing as she rarely drives in the centre.

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I don't think it's marked 100% correctly, but as far as I can see your car was within the designated taxi rank. Is there any meaningful mitigation you could put forwards?

One possible angle to pursue on appeal is that the evidence from the council doesn't suffice to show a contravention, but you don't want to point that out now as it would give them a chance to gather further evidence.

Thanks for coming back to me cp, really appreciate your assistance.

I'm unsure what we could put forward in terms of mitigation, other than the fact that there were roadworks going on with conflicting one way signs, stickers & other debris covering parts of the sign and poor lighting at the time of night making the sign difficult to see. But I'm unsure how much impact this would have. The bay markings also seem very confusing, and the yellow line was rather worn out and broken.

Ta, Dave




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We've finally received the NTO which I've attached below. We received this yesterday (20th Nov), however the front page of the letter claims they sent this on the 9th ???

Only name / address have been redacted. Thanks again for your assistance with this.

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It's just an informal rejection.

If you wait for the notice to owner, in almost all instances the council will reoffer the discount as long as you make representations within 14 days. Are you the registered keeper and do you have the V5C? If so, is the address up to date?

Yep, she is the registered keeper, has the V5C and the address is up to date. We shall wait for that to come through. Is there anything we should be doing in the mean time, or is it just a waiting game now?

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Post all sides. Only redact name & address.
Rep as per 22nd.Sept post?

Thanks, John. Yes that's correct, the rep is the one you see on the post from the 22nd.

Attaching the PDF here.

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I admire your optimism, but it doesn't really work like that. You should assume the council will reject anything you say and we'll have to wait for the notice to owner, make representations again, the council will reject them again, and then we'll have to appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. It's only at the tribunal stage that you get a fair hearing.

I should've known better  ::)

The council have responded today rejecting the challenge. Shall I post the full PDF here (with personal information redacted) or do you just need specific information from the document?

Ta, Dave :)

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Thank you so much everyone, I've just lodged the appeal. Hopefully the outcome is in her favour, but regardless I'd like to thank you all for your input and wisdom. It's greatly appreciated :)

I'll be sure to leave an update on this thread once we know the outcome.

Thanks,
Dave

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Okay, I had a crack at something. Be brutal-- but not too brutal, I have feelings ;)

Quote
Re: Penalty Charge Notice:
Vehicle Registration:
Date of Issuance: 12th September 2023
Alleged Contravention: 45 - Parked on a Taxi Rank

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally appeal the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) referenced above, which was issued to me on the 12th September 2023 at 20:13 for the alleged contravention of parking on a taxi rank. I believe that this PCN has been issued unfairly and request that it be reconsidered for the following reasons:

Unclear Signage: At the time when I parked my vehicle, I observed that the signage indicating parking regulations was unclear and illegible due to being obscured by tape and stickers. As such, it was impossible for me to ascertain the restrictions and the times displayed on the sign. I would like to emphasize that it is essential for drivers to have clear and unambiguous signage to ensure compliance with parking regulations.

Contradictory One-Way Signs: Additionally, the situation was further complicated by the presence of a contraflow arrangement in the area. This resulted in some "one-way" signs pointing in one direction while others pointed in the opposite direction. It is crucial to note that one-way signs carry legal significance and are pivotal for road users' compliance. The existence of contradictory signage raises concerns about the council's administrative and organisational competence, potentially leading to confusion among drivers.

Ambiguity of the Area: The location where I parked is evidently a pay and display area during certain times, transforming into a taxi rank during nighttime hours. However, due to the obscured sign, it was impossible for me to discern that I was within the restricted time period for parking on a taxi rank. Clarity and transparency in signage are essential to prevent inadvertent violations.

In light of the aforementioned factors, I kindly request that you review my appeal and consider the circumstances presented. I believe that, given the unclear signage and contradictory one-way signs, the penalty charge in this case should be waived.

I trust that you will give due consideration to the evidence provided and the points raised in this letter. I look forward to receiving a prompt response regarding the outcome of this appeal. Please find my contact information below for any further correspondence.

Sincerely,
My missus

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Hi there,

Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been away for a few days. Thank you so much for all of your advice. I think to begin with I'm going to go down the route of explaining that the sign was obscured, and as previously stated the evidence photos don't show an awful lot of anything.

I've never written up anything like this before, so are there any resources around for standard templates that I should follow, or an article on the forum I could take a look at?

Thanks again!

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The other aspect which confuses me is that the post behind the car carries a one-way street sign(clear in GSV and just discernible in the council's photos)but the car is facing the wrong way...and so is the car behind in the council's photos!

Ah, there are roadworks currently, so traffic is being routed the wrong way. City centres  ::)

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