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Messages - Hauldoverklein

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Private parking tickets / Re: UK CPM – No Parking at Any Time – Rear of Platform, Sheffield – BW Legal chasing £340 for 2 PCNs
« on: May 25, 2025, 12:18:49 am »
Quote from: b789 on May 24, 2025, 10:10:29 pm
If you are prepared to "negotiate" a lower amount, then you are admitting liability. If you think you owe a debt to PCM, just because they say you do, then pay them. It's your hard earned money and they rely on the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree paying into their scam.

When they send an LoC, so what? They will also issue an N1DT Claim Form from the CNBC through MCOL. However, you don't owe a debt unless a judge says you do.

You have already had the reasoning as to why you cannot be liable for the alleged debt. If you think we don't know how to defend a claim, then you are free to do whatever you want. All we ask is that you don't ask us for further advice as it takes up a lot of our time and we have hundreds of ongoing cases that we are successfully dealing with.

BY the time the claims is filed and defended, you will have an opportunity to offer the scammers some of your money at the mandatory mediation phone call. We normally advise to offer £0. Mediation is only mandatory to attend the call. There is no requirement to offer anything. It is not part of the judicial process and no judge is involved and it has absolutely no bearing on the claim moving forward.

Really appreciate your time and all the guidance so far. This is my first time navigating something like this, so I just wanted to be sure I understood the options fully.

I’ll follow the advice and wait for a Letter Before Claim before taking any further steps. Thanks again for the support.

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Private parking tickets / Re: UK CPM – No Parking at Any Time – Rear of Platform, Sheffield – BW Legal chasing £340 for 2 PCNs
« on: May 24, 2025, 09:35:57 pm »
Quote from: b789 on May 24, 2025, 06:48:12 pm
What CCJ? Do you have any understanding of how someone gets a CCJ? Nothing we advise on here will make anyone get a CCJ.

Quote
A County Court Judgment (CCJ) does not just happen—it follows a clear legal process. If someone gets a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private parking company, here's what happens step by step:

1. Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issued

• The parking company sends a letter (Notice to Keeper) demanding money.

• This is not a fine—it’s an invoice for an alleged breach of contract.

2. Opportunity to Appeal

• The recipient can appeal to the parking company.

•If rejected, they may be able to appeal to POPLA (if BPA member) or IAS (if IPC member).

• If an appeal is lost or ignored, the parking company demands payment.

3. Debt Collection Letters

• The parking company might send scary letters or pass the case to a debt collector.

• Debt collectors have no power—they just send letters and can be ignored.

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

4. Letter Before Claim (LBC)

• If ignored for long enough, the parking company (or their solicitor) sends a Letter Before Claim (LBC).

• This is a warning that they may start a court case.

• The recipient has 30 days to reply before a claim is filed.

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

5. County Court Claim Issued

• If ignored or unpaid, the parking company may file a claim with the County Court.

• The court sends a Claim Form with details of the claim and how to respond.

• The recipient has 14 days to respond (or 28 days if they acknowledge it).

• No CCJ happens at this stage.

6. Court Process

• If the recipient defends the claim, a judge decides if they owe money.

• If the recipient ignores the claim, the parking company wins by default.

• No CCJ happens yet unless the recipient loses and ignores the court.

7. Judgment & Payment

• If the court rules that money is owed, the recipient has 30 days to pay in full.

• If they pay within 30 days, no CCJ goes on their credit file.

• If they don’t pay within 30 days, the CCJ stays on their credit file for 6 years.

Conclusion

CCJs do not appear out of thin air. They only happen if:

• A parking company takes the case to court.

• The person loses or ignores the case.

• The person fails to pay within 30 days.

If you engage with the process (appeal, defend, or pay on time), no CCJ happens.

Thanks for the clarification regarding the CCJ process.

Just to confirm, do you think the best course of action now is to simply wait for a Letter Before Claim, rather than engaging or trying to negotiate a lower amount (e.g. original £100 x2)? I understand it’s highly unlikely to succeed, but just wanted to check if there’s any value or precedent in that kind of approach at this stage.


Appreciate all the support so far.

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Private parking tickets / Re: UK CPM – No Parking at Any Time – Rear of Platform, Sheffield – BW Legal chasing £340 for 2 PCNs
« on: May 24, 2025, 03:34:54 pm »
Quote from: b789 on May 24, 2025, 01:59:13 pm
Updating the V5C after the event is irrelevant. PCMUK can only request Keeper data once. The DVLA database is not something they can simply access whenever they want. After receiving no response, they passed the case to BW Legal to act as a debt collector and they did a simple credit search to find the Keepers current address.

However, PCMUK still have two possible addresses for you and they could send any claim to the old address, where the Keeper would know nothing about it and get a CCJ by default. The Keeper must send a Data Rectification Notice to the DPO at PCMUK and instruct them to update the Keepers current address for service and to erase the old address. The highlighted words are there for a reason… so use them.

For now, BW Legal is acting as a debt collector and can be ignored until they send a Letter of Claim (LoC), which they will, in due course. When you receive that, show it to us and we will provide a suitable response.

For some obscure reason you have redacted the most important information we need to see on the Notice to Keeper (NtK), which is ALL dates and times. Please repost that with the relevant data we need to see.

There is no requirement for the parking operator to issue a windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD). A postal NtK is all they need. However, it is obvious to us, that the NtK is not fully compliant with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012 in order to be able to hold the known Keeper liable for the charge. Only the unknown (to PCMUK) ) driver can be liable.


There are other items that are fatal to any claim, which will come. The signage is incapable of forming a contract as it is prohibitive and offers nothing. Also, the operator was required to put up temporary signage for a duration of not less than 4 months which clearly notified that the terms of parking were new or had materially changed. Were those signs in place?

You also mention that this location was some sort of residential parking area? Was this something to do with the Keepers residence?


Thank you so much for your detailed and helpful response.

To clarify, the parking company involved is UK Car Park Management Ltd (CPM) — did you mean notifying CPM instead of PCMUK?

The keeper has now sent a Data Rectification Notice via email to CPM's Data Protection Officer, requesting that their address for service be updated and the old one erased, as advised.


The photos have now been reuploaded containing both PCN's with all dates and times visible: https://imgur.com/a/ipmIiMw
(updated the main post to reflect this)


Regarding the signage question:

The keeper has a photo on 22nd March 2024 which clearly shows no permanent signage present at the car park.

However, on 21st March 2024, a temporary printed A4 notice was seen placed on dashboards of several vehicles (possibly including the keeper's), which read:

"[RESIDENTIAL COMPLEX COMPANY's NAME:] PRIVATE LAND – PARKING IS NOT ALLOWED HERE. CARS NEED TO REMOVE IMMEDIATELY – OR WILL BE TOWED ON 22nd MARCH 2024"

This appears to have been issued by the property manager, not CPM. No official signage was in force on 22nd March based on available photo evidence. This was related to cars parked a slightly further down the street (to avoid confusion, that's not the usual spot and PCN reflect the usual parking area)

The earliest photographic evidence of CPM signage visible at the site seems to be around 6th June 2024, based on older pictures. From memory, the keeper does not recall any other notices or communication formally stating that parking enforcement had begun or changed.


To answer the final question — the keeper did not live in the residential area building itself, but lived close by (a few seconds away), and used the lot regularly due to lack of available street parking nearby.
Finally, I’d like to be open that this is a delicate situation — the keeper is not in a position to risk a County Court Judgment (CCJ) due to personal circumstances, including the potential impact on a DBS check. For that reason, if this ever escalated to court, the keeper would likely not be in a position to fight it all the way through.

Thanks again for all the support — grateful for any further guidance on next steps.

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Private parking tickets / UK CPM – No Parking at Any Time – Rear of Platform, Sheffield – BW Legal chasing £340 for 2 PCNs
« on: May 24, 2025, 10:17:21 am »
Summary of situation:



The registered keeper received a debt collection letter in February 2025 from BW Legal claiming £340 for two unpaid PCNs (initially £100 each, or £60 discounted).


These relate to alleged contraventions in July 2024 at “Rear of Platform, Sheffield city center” managed by UK Car Park Management Ltd (UK CPM). No windscreen tickets were issued. No initial postal PCNs were received because the keeper had not yet updated their V5C logbook after moving in July 2024.


Photos were only provided after BW Legal paused the case following a phone call, and have just now been shared in May 2025.

Timeline:
  • Dec 2023 – Driver began regularly parking in a small private lot near their residence due to lack of on-street parking. No signage or enforcement was in place at the time.
  • 21st March 2024 – A temporary A4 notice was placed on several dashboards (possibly including the driver's). It read:
     "PRIVATE LAND – PARKING IS NOT ALLOWED HERE. CARS NEED TO REMOVE IMMEDIATELY – OR WILL BE TOWED ON 22nd MARCH 2024"
  • 22nd March 2024 – A photo taken on this date confirms there were still no permanent UK CPM signs installed at the location.
  • June(?) – July 2024 – Based on available images and recollection, new UK CPM signage was installed sometime during this period. This was not communicated clearly, and no temporary signage about the new contract terms was seen by the driver.
  • July 2024 – Keeper moved to a new address.
No PCNs were seen on the windscreen at any point
  • Feb 2025 – Keeper updated V5C with DVLA.
  • Shortly after – First correspondence received: BW Legal demanding £340.
Keeper phoned BW Legal to request details/photos (location in portal was vague). BW Legal put the case on hold.
  • May 2025 – Photos received, showing signage (now in place), and the vehicle parked there on two occasions.
BW Legal has stated the hold is lifted and the next step will be a Letter of Claim if payment is not made.
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Key points:
  • Signage was not present for most of the time during regular parking from Dec–few weeks/a month before moving out. It was not noticed during the period of time before moving.
  • The driver was not aware of any parking restrictions or enforcement changes.
  • Keeper was not given an opportunity to pay the £60 discounted rate as no notice was received.
  • The charge is now £170 x 2 = £340.
  • The location is a newly developed residential area with unclear parking management changes during the period in question.

Registered Keeper status:
Yes – V5C now up to date. Keeper details were incorrect until Feb 2025 due to moving house.
Questions:
  • Should the keeper write a “without prejudice” email to BW Legal now offering to settle at the original £60 per PCN (or £100)?
  • Anything else to include or watch for at this stage?

Uploaded documents

https://imgur.com/a/ipmIiMw
  • Photo of signage now in place at the lot
  • Letter from BW Legal – demand for £340
  • UK CPM PCN Notice 1 – dated July 2024
  • UK CPM PCN Notice 2 – dated July 2024
TL;DR:
Keeper only received notice in Feb 2025 due to V5C not being updated. Signage was newly installed around the time of move-out (July 2024). Two £60 PCNs have now become £340. BW Legal says Letter of Claim is next. Should the keeper try to negotiate now or wait?

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