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Messages - Driver110

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
« on: May 19, 2025, 09:57:30 pm »
Quote from: NewJudge on May 19, 2025, 09:04:28 pm
I think you are approaching this incorrectly.

If you believe you will be convicted, your aim should be to lessen the damage. Your main consideration seems to be to avoid six or more points. Pleading guilty, or being found guilty following a trial will not see a difference in the number of points you receive.

Therefore if you believe you will be convicted but plead not guilty simply to retain the right to argue your case (which you believe you will lose) you are being foolish. The financial penalty will be considerably harsher. The main element of that will be prosecution costs. A guilty plea will see costs of around £90; being found guilty following a trial will see costs of at least £620 and you will also lose the one third discount off the fine which you will be granted if you plead guilty.

That is the price you will pay to retain the right to argue your case if that argument does not succeed.

Thank you for the clarification. I only believe I will be found guilty as it is the word of two police officers against my own word. I have no other evidence that I can rely upon and no witnesses I can call.

Essentially, all I can do is say that I was not speeding or tailgating/attempting to overtake a vehicle as stated. I remained behind the vehicle in question until I could move into the correct lane to cross the roundabout and then proceeded to cross the roundabout and continue my journey home.

I am just thinking it might be easier to plead guilty and hope for a light sentence rather than try and fight it and risk the financial penalties you have mentioned. Thank you.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
« on: May 19, 2025, 07:57:20 pm »
Quote
Yes you will.

If the SJ believes the penalty should be less than six points you will simply be sentenced under that process and informed of the outcome by post.

Ahh ok. Apologies, I misunderstood your earlier message. So there is still a chance that they could deem the offence to be worthy of less than 6 points, which would avoid court. I understand now.

Quote
The financial penalty will but the number of points will not.

Appreciate the clarification. Much to think about. I guess my worry is pleading guilty, and the SJ thinking it is 5+ points worthy and calling me to court with regards to the disqualification, but at that point, I have lost the right to argue my case with regards to the reckless driving charge and instead will be trying to argue against being disqualified/for a lower points penalty?

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
« on: May 19, 2025, 06:42:12 pm »
Quote from: NewJudge on May 19, 2025, 06:19:23 pm
If you plead guilty and do not ask to attend court, the Single Justice considers that more than five points are appropriate (and would so make you liable o "totting up") the SJ will not sentence you. Instead your case will be adjourned to a hearing in he normal Magistrates' Court and you will be asked to attend.

From your description (and provided the court accepts the officer's evidence) there seems a fairly high probability that you will be convicted. With that in mind, contesting the matter may prove costly.

Ahh ok. So again, thinking out loud, I am kinda screwed if I plead guilty anyways, as I won’t be able to avoid court.

Apologies if you don’t know, or this is a stupid question, but if pleading guilty automatically qualifies you for 5 points (in a way) then I might aswell try and fight my case and put the burden of proof on the prosecution? In that circumstance, if I am found guilty, is there a chance the points could be 3? Or would the sentence actually be harsher due to pleading not guilty?

Apologies, really trying to get my head around all the possibilities.

Thank you very much for your reply/help.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
« on: May 19, 2025, 04:36:33 pm »
Quote from: JustLoveCars on May 19, 2025, 03:34:56 pm
Quote from: Driver110 on May 19, 2025, 02:35:29 pm
I am unsure how all this works with a SJPN.
The SJPN is a 'Single Justice' in a room that processes the forms.  You cannot attend.  (But the matter can potentially be disposed of at this stage)

For a guilty plea they will simply decide on the sentence based on the statements presented.  Should you want to challenge those statements then the matter would have to be heard at court.

From what little you have said, the matter does seem low end so you may not be at risk at totting.  But the SJ can decide that the matter be heard at court based on the possibility.  You don't have to submit an EH plea if you do tot - it doesn't sound like you have a case anyway (But there's nothing to be lost in trying).

Alternatively, you can plead not guilty and run a defence at a contested trial.  Note the threshold to conviction above.

Thank you very much for the explanation; that is a lot clearer now.

I just need to decide whether to risk the guilty plea in order to potentially avoid court, or just plead not guilty and try and fight it, but potentially lose as it is essentially a case of their word against mine. (Just thinking out loud here.)

Thanks again for the advice and explanations, it is very much appreciated.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
« on: May 19, 2025, 04:32:04 pm »
Quote from: andy_foster on May 19, 2025, 03:05:47 pm
Quote from: Driver110 on May 19, 2025, 02:35:29 pm
So are you saying that their statements, and the testimony they give at court will be enough to convict, without any other evidence?

Are you asking whether whoever it was that you were replying to has stated that the contents of the statements, which you had not shared with us when that post was made, and that unknown evidence that the officer will give if their statement(s) are challenged will result in you being convicted? If so, that is a spectacularly stupid question.

Firstly, for the most part at least, people are saying what they have written in their posts. Not whatever you decide for whatever reason to read into their posts.

For careless driving, the court can convict on the evidence of a single uncorroborated witness, if as a result of that evidence (and considering anything you might have said in your defence) they are certain beyond any reasonable doubt that the standard of your driving fell below the standard expected of a careful and competent driver.

Apologies, that may not have come across the best. I wasn’t trying to get confirmation of whether I would definitely be found guilty, I was trying to understand whether uncorroborated witness evidence in general would be enough in a case like this.

And that you have confirmed at the end of your reply, so thank you.

The threshold for conviction seems quite low, with regards to what falls under careless driving, so I am just trying to weigh up my options. I appreciate the help.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: SJP for driving without due care and attention
« on: May 19, 2025, 02:35:29 pm »
Thank you for the replies. The police officers are saying that I pulled out of a road at speed without stopping properly and that I attempted to overtake another vehicle but was prevented from doing so by some bollards coming up to a roundabout. This was not the case.

Perhaps I was too close to the vehicle in front, but I did not attempt to overtake at any point. They are then saying I sped over the roundabout and continued on and were therefore unable to perform a stop at the time. Statement indicates that they think I sped past on purpose in order to avoid a stop, but again, this was not the case.

So are you saying that their statements, and the testimony they give at court will be enough to convict, without any other evidence?

I would not say the circumstances were serious, but am unsure what would be classed as serious in this kind of scenario. It was late at night, and I was driving just outside of the town centre, but no-one was harmed or at risk of being harmed, in my opinion. I was just trying to get home.

With the totting up risk - if I were to plead guilty, is it possible that they would review the statements and decide on a 3 point penalty and there would be no need to attend court? Or will there always be a need to attend court if the points range will possibly put you at risk, like in these circumstances. Apologies, I am unsure how all this works with a SJPN.

Unfortunately, I don't think I would have an Exceptional Hardship plea. I am a single, young(ish) driver, with no major responsibilities.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / SJP for driving without due care and attention
« on: May 17, 2025, 12:58:48 pm »
Hi, I have been issued with an SJP for driving in a public place without due care and attention. Two police officer witness statements have been served with the SJP, but these contain factual inaccuracies with regards to where they say they saw me and where their vehicle ended up/roads they went down. No other evidence has been served and I don’t believe there is any dashcam footage. I understand speeding is an aggravating factor and they don’t need to have evidence of the speed I was doing, but there is no evidence of this. I wish to plead not guilty but am unsure as to what information needs to go in the box when completing my response form and whether I need to serve a formal witness statement or if this can be dealt with later on in the process. As the only evidence from my side will be my own testimony. I am at risk of 6 points which would lead to a totting up ban, and I am trying to avoid this. Thanks in advance.

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