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Messages - DocktorJ

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I sent an email in reply to give them the opportunity to become aware of / correct the issues which I would've used in my defence:

Thank you for your unexpected but welcome correspondence, I appreciate your understanding and kind gesture to cancel the PCN.

In preparation for an anticipated second appeal / tribunal, I gathered further evidence related to this PCN. I found several inconsistencies which I believe invalidate the legality of the Eastlands Residents Parking Scheme and should be addressed to avoid other motorists falling foul of the same innocent error I did. Whilst I will no longer need this evidence to fight a PCN I still wish to draw your attention to it to give you a fair chance to correct these problems.

1, In previous correspondence from M. Noble of your department, they stated:

'Signs are in place at entry points into the zone which advise drivers of the restrictions in place.'

I have video evidence demonstrating this is not true. It is possible to enter the restricted area via Ashton Old Road without ever passing a sign informing the driver that they are doing so. The only restrictive signs relate to specific parking bays, rather than the area as a whole. The video evidence of this route is here:

I believe you need to place additional signs corresponding with the map of the restricted zone, if not on Ashton Old Road, certainly on Great Ancoats Street and Every Street. Adequate signage is a legal requirement under Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England And Wales) Regulations 1996, Regulation 18 - 1 - A, and I feel this video demonstrates that there is at least one major route into the city where the signage does not secure that 'adequate information as to the effect (of the restricted zone) is made available to the road user.'

2, Your website describes Beswick St as being part of the restricted zone:

The route I described in my previous email, and this next video, shows signage at the end of Branson St stating a 'Permit Parking Zone Ends' as the road user transitions into Beswick St. I understand you have taken this into account in my case and I appreciate that. Regardless, these two facts cannot both be true. I feel this causes undue confusion to road users. I note that Beswick St was not included under the previous Etihad Parking Scheme which was the current scheme's predecessor, is it possible this sign was left up as a remnant of the previous Etihad scheme? In any case, if Beswick St is intended to be within the restricted zone this sign should be removed, if not, the website should be altered. If the sign is a remnant of the Etihad scheme, it would be a contravention of Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England And Wales) Regulations 1996, Regulation 18 - 1 - C, pertinently the requirement to 'avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.'

3, Another route into the restricted zone is via Ashton New Road in Clayton, a short way past Aldi. Whilst this route has a sign, it is poorly maintained, see this video:

It looks like it's been crashed into at some point, hanging out of the ground at an angle, with the face of the signed turned away from the road, towards the pavement. This makes it hard to read from a driver's perspective and could be interpreted as a breach of Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England And Wales) Regulations 1996, Regulation 18 - 1 - B, pertinently the requirement as to the 'maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force.' I would like to see this sign repaired or replaced so 'adequate information as to the effect (of the restricted zone) is made available to the road user.'

4, Given the evidence above, whilst I am grateful you've agreed to cancel the PCN, I feel aggrieved that I've been accused of a technical wrongdoing in the face of what I consider to be a far larger amount of technical wrongdoing on the part of Manchester City Council. I never set out to intentionally break rules, If I had seen a sign telling me 'Don't enter this road without a permit' I wouldn't have done it. This unexpected accusation caused me a lot of stress, lost sleep, and made me physically ill. I spent a day and a half driving in and out of the city to gather this evidence and check other routes for inconsistencies. I lost income from missing work, and spent income on petrol. I've effectively donated an audit on your compliance. I just hope you take these points on board so no-one else suffers the way I have.

Kind regards,

2
https://imgur.com/Rq1n6TB

Out of the blue I received a second 'decision letter' from the council, this time addressed from a different person, claiming that the PCN was valid (It wasn't), but 'noted my comment' about the inadequate signage en route to Branson St and therefore cancelled the PCN on this occasion.

At this point I haven't even made Manchester City Council aware of my video evidence uploaded to YouTube, although I will be doing so. It's possible someone from the council stumbled upon it though.

Reading these forums, and some of the comments on my videos, it appears councils generally reject first appeals as a rule? After all, from their perspective, if they accept an appeal, they receive £0. If they reject an appeal, at worst they receive £0 by losing at tribunal, and potentially stand to gain £35 or £70. So where is the incentive for them to ever approve an appeal? In theory, wouldn't they let every single one go to tribunal? Surely there should be as equal a risk to the council in denying appeals as there is to the appelant in making an appeal.

Anyway, thank you to everybody who helped me with this problem, the internet is a shitty place but sites like this remind me of its true value. 


3
Yes I am the registered owner with the V5 in my name, address is up to date and all details are the same as the day I received the invalid PCN.

 I understand I'm risking an additional £35 by continuing to challenge the PCN (this in itself is a disgraceful practice that encourages councils to dismiss first appeal out of hand).I am assuming MCC will dismiss my second challenge which is why I am placing my hopes in the tribunal, as they may be independent and therefore properly consider my evidence?

Regardless of the financial risk involved, I feel strongly that the council is in the wrong here, as shown in my first YouTube video where I drive to Branson St using a major route (Ashton Old Road) and never encounter any required signage. I've also spent many hours researching my defence with the help of this forum, recording video etc. spent a tank of petrol driving many different routes gathering evidence of the councils' lawbreaking. I've lost sleep over this, it's made me ill, I've missed work. I don't like being accused of doing something wrong when I've acted in good faith. As a result the true cost to me is a value much higher than £35 or £70.


4

Good point. Councils can be very dozy when it comes to signs of parking restrictions, and rely, for enforcement, on most people just coughing-up so as to get the discount, being unfamiliar with the minutiae of parking law and regulations.
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I followed the suggested advice and gathered my own evidence in support of my claim. I've uploaded the videos I created to YouTube:

https://youtu.be/eJtp9Xt3YeM?si=9jJG-Q7Eprcayuv2

The link above is a long, uncut video showing that on my journey to Branson St, I never passed or even saw any sign informing me I was entering a restricted zone. In my opinion this is irrefutable evidence of a contravention of Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England And Wales) Regulations 1996, Regulation 18 - 1 - A.

https://youtu.be/xnJ36S6H_Mw?si=uwCMt910VTwvKi1_

The link above is a video showing contradictory signage on Branson St which causes confusion to the road user and demonstrates that the road signage does not match the council website's descriptions of roads included in the restricted zone. This is in contravention of Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England And Wales) Regulations 1996, Regulation 18 - 1 - C.

The video also demonstrates that if the signage is to be trusted, the council explicitly informs the road user they are outside the restricted area as they enter Beswick St, and the uncut video demonstrates that the road user never subsequently encounters signage informing them they have entered a restricted zone as they travel to Branson St. Again, an example of a contravention of Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England And Wales) Regulations 1996, Regulation 18 - 1 - A.

https://youtu.be/OBbA_bBm1ys?si=hz-W6ZczBNWkjHOK

This video is just a little bonus. This isn't the route I initially took to Branson St - but it demonstrates poor quality signage on another route into the alleged Restricted Zone. I feel this could demonstrate a contravention of Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England And Wales) Regulations 1996, Regulation 18 - 1 - B.

I am hoping this will be a strong enough case for me at second appeal / tribunal.

5
If the council argues the 'Permit parking area ENDS' signs are a leftover of the previous parking restrictions before the introduction of the Eastlands scheme in March 2024, leaving them up would be a contravention of the legislation you quoted, section 18, 1, c:

in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.

I imagine this is what has happened. Like Beswick St, Cambrian St is listed as one of the addresses impacted by the new restricted zone. Looking through historical photos on Street view, these signs were in place as far back as 2013 so it would appear they relate to the boundaries of the previous restricted zone which was much smaller. Therefore the council failed to remove signage from the older, smaller zone and caused confusion, in direct contravention of the quoted legislation.

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https://maps.app.goo.gl/yrjdTEfimANBEPuFA

In fact, looking at street view for Cambrian Street, here we can clearly see two signs saying 'Parking Permit Area ENDS' right before turning left into Lind St and continuing on to Branson St.

So even though I entered the restricted area miles away in Clayton, at this point I certainly was told I was outside the restricted area, turned into Lind St, continued to Cavalier St then Branson St.

So even on my first foray into Branson St I was already told I was outside the restricted area. Then told AGAIN when I left Branson St for Beswick St, which I didn't even need to do. 

It would appear that the sign the council use as evidence showing that Branson St is restricted only applies at one entrance to that street, and any of the other routes to Branson St are specifically informing the driver they are outside the permit zone.

I will be eagerly making my own photos and videos of this tomorrow. In light of this I cannot see how I would not win at tribunal. But I am not an expert on these matters which is why I defer to you! 

https://imgur.com/a/Sx7azmx

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The bottom line is that if you didn't pass a restricted zone sign on your route to the location on Branson St, then no contravention has been committed.

On my way into the city, I believe I did pass a sign a couple miles back informing me I entered a restricted zone although I didn't realise it at the time. So I would have initially entered Branson St from the North via Cambrian St still under the effect of that sign. But my argument hinges on at the point I left Branson St into Beswick St, at that point being specifically told I am now outside the restricted zone, and then accidentally re-entering Branson St using a different route that does not pass a sign indicating I have re-entered a restricted zone, effectively being ignorant that I've returned to the same street.

8
Many thanks for your replies. The images taken from Google street view are dated July 2024, and the parking restrictions became effective 25th March 2024:

https://www.facebook.com/mancitycouncil/posts/from-today-the-eastlands-resident-parking-scheme-is-live-meaning-that-parking-is/808787427947552/

However I will return tomorrow and take my own photos as suggested.

Apologies for not consulting here before appealing - I was hasty to appeal and only discovered this forum tonight. My representation consisted of the street view images demonstrating the lack of signage on my route having left the restricted zone which I posted above, and my argument essentially being that at the point of being in Beswick St I was outside the restricted zone, and my journey from there to Branson St never crossed a sign telling me I re-entered the restricted zone.

Interestingly, despite the sign saying 'Permit Parking Area ENDS' when transitioning to Beswick St, the following webpage from Manchester City Council describes Beswick St as falling within the restricted zone. I do not understand how these two facts can be true. The council has certainly messed up somewhere:

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/500347/resident_parking_schemes/8686/eastlands_residents_parking_scheme/2

9
Hello all. thanks in advance for your advice.

I received a PCN for parking in a permit-restricted zone in Branson St, Manchester. I did not realise it was restricted at the time. Backtracing my route several miles back, on multiple routes into city there were in fact signs informing me I entered a restricted area. Here is the Street View Link:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/76CMqCMTAGu7PFG87

I am trying to contest the PCN based on the fact I found a specific route into this parking spot where I don't pass a threshold / junction with a sign informing me I entered a restricted zone.

https://imgur.com/hFTCp9d

The red icon on this map is where I parked.

The blue 'P' on the map is a sign, which when in Branson St heading towards Beswick St, states 'Permit Parking Area ENDS':

https://imgur.com/1mj9xcP

On the reverse of that sign, visible from Beswick St as you pass or enter Branson St, is notice that it is a restricted zone:

https://imgur.com/pNtJT5e

The red route I have drawn on the map is a route from Beswick St to my parking spot, during which there are no signs indicating I entered a restricted zone. Essentially my argument relies on two facts:

1, Beswick St is outside the restricted zone.
2, from Beswick St to Branson St I never crossed a threshold / junction with a sign indicating I entered a restricted zone.

I appealed the PCN on this basis and the appeal was rejected. The council simply assert that there was a sign at the junction of Beswick St and Branson St, and multiple signs on the route into the city. They did not address my assertion that even if I was initially aware of being in a restricted zone, once I passed into Beswick St I was informed by their signage I was outside the restricted zone, I then made multiple twists and turns to find a valid parking space, didn't realise I had re-entered Branson St since I don't know the area well, and never passed a sign informing me I had re-entered a restricted zone. I also had no chance to see the sign from Beswick St into Branson St because it was behind me as I entered Beswick St, leaving the restricted zone.

Do I have a chance at tribunal? I don't want to double my fine if I don't have a leg to stand on. I will link the PCN, Council response to my appeal, and images of all the junctions described on my journey, demonstrating there was no signage on my route from Beswick St.

Beswick St into Pollard St:

https://imgur.com/koqTvXF

Pollard St into Cowan St:

https://imgur.com/LWBuY1O

Cowan St into Lind St:

https://imgur.com/SmF9U8W

Lind St into Cavalier St:

https://imgur.com/7nfDGO1

Cavalier St into Branson St:

https://imgur.com/iq1zVFi

PCN Front page:

https://imgur.com/zGXP8fF

PCN Rear Page:

https://imgur.com/cabeS6j

Appeal Response P1:

https://imgur.com/DDsjOoE

Appeal Response P2:

https://imgur.com/hWSmJEy

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