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Messages - Pcnninjagirl

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1
I actually thought it had nothing written in it🥴

Now I know, that once I see a yellow sign, to run, won’t even bother checking 🙆‍♀️

I’ll submit a representation. Thanks for even writing to me 😊

2
I and my family has been helped many times on old site and this most recent one. I hope of you kind folks can help me please if possible.

I went to Burnoak for quick shopping and picked up pcn in the process.

I did see the sign but saw there was nothing on it, so parked, put parking ticket and left. I was back pretty quickly and ticket issued within 4 minutes of me parking.

Parked:
Description: BURNT OAK (2 HOURS)

Start Parking: 2026/02/19 1:59PM
Stop Parking: 2026/02/19 2:59PM

What I saw when I drove in and parked:

https://storage.to/G4MPiMdIE

What I saw after investigating the sign:

https://storage.to/G4MPm3XyP

PCN:

https://storage.to/G4Nuax7jl

And

https://storage.to/G4OQxDmfU


I’m kicking myself for not moving the damaged sign to see it better, however, I feel the sign should’ve been secured properly so it can easily be seen.

I took some video after the fact. Below

Is this worth appealing? Please advise, thanks in advance.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KdO6V_3K0TdfkoW9DF9JIiyt-d9C45G3/view?usp=drivesdk


And

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19_dnlYntbnK5H7dMN7EoZ9huXf_mXBw2/view?usp=drivesdk

I was parked on the box 📦 spot
https://maps.app.goo.gl/P9hF2jsGUo32rSST9?g_st=ic

3
Why don’t people update us of the outcome. They just disappear.

4
Final update, thanks to everyone who helped me, stamfordman 🙏 and pastmybestt 🤩. Couldn’t have done it without you. My sister is chuffed, she’s a ticket collector, so, I’ll be back in the future😂

https://imgur.com/a/YLR0Gl8

5
They mentioned the sign was there with round red and horizontal white line. So, I suppose they addressed my concern, albeit, the sign can’t be seen.

Anyone else with input please, next stage is to appeal to the tribunal I guess.

I think they've handed you a win here. Their site said it was on hold and you could submit a challenge - she did so and they pretty much ignored it saying they cancelled the charge certificate but this was established anyway.

But did she just send what I wrote?

See what others say but although the discount is on offer I'd take it to the tribunal.




6
She’s received a reply, please see below. Basically, to pay up and the sign was there. Don’t think they even looked at the pictures enclosed.


https://ibb.co/5hrY5kPg
https://ibb.co/DyGM4KJ
https://ibb.co/GvHdkydL

7
Thanks, their online one won’t allow it, I’ll get her to email it. Will update once they reply.

8
I’m completely lost now with you guys talking about legislations 🥴

What exactly, should I get my sister to do please from here? Copy your letter and pictures and send to the council, challenging the penalty?

9
Thanks Stamfordman. I’ll get sister to email them with your suggested challenge, unless anyone else, has another input.

I think there is a good case.

I've looked at the tribunal and there are cases refused where drivers have turned right and u-turned, as clearly they would have seen signs. Once you go over the road lines and past signs the contravention is made out.

There is one case where the adjudicator couldn't be sure the line was breached.

But your video showing the approach from the left is convincing as the nearside sign is not pointing towards traffic.

An adjudicator also posted this which someone may be able to make sense of:

[ For future reference it would appear that by virtue of Schedule 3 Part 5 Para 1 Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 the sign must be supported by (in this case) a TMO. The sign in question is not specified as a s36 Traffic Sign - column 6 of Schedule 3 part 2 specifies the applicable provisions of Part 4 only as 2 and 4, not 1 which is the application of s 36. If the Council is aware of authority or legislation to the contrary it might be wise to refer to it in any future case of this type]


Anyway I think a challenge should be sent soonest and I would send:

Dear Harrow,

thanks for giving me the opportunity to challenge the PCN and I do so on the grounds that the no entry signage could not be seen on my approach from the left, where I only entered the mouth of Grove Hill Road to turn around as seen in your video.

I have been back to the location and made a video walking to Grove Hill Road, and the left-hand no entry sign is not positioned to be seen by a driver turning left.

I enclose a picture.

I trust you will agree that no contravention occurred owing to inadequate signage and look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation.

---------



10
It’s been like this a week now, think they’ve just reduced it and not communicated it. I guess, my sister can email in a challenge and potentially go to tribunal if need be.

I feel the sign, when coming from where she drove from, isn’t clear.

They've put it on hold and say they'll accept a challenge.

The tribunal can be hard to search - I'll have a look tomorrow.



11
Checked the register for Harrow council and that particular road, nothing I can rely on but I’ll broaden my search tomorrow.

We've seen this one before - question is this manoeuvre a breach of the no entry given the visibility of the approach from the left - I don't think it is but can't recall outcomes. We should check the register.



12
No, I wrote to the council that the initial pcn wasn’t received. So they adjusted the penalty. However I feel, my sister might have grounds to appeal. What do you think about the signage not being adequate from where she drove from?

13
Another thing, Harrow has reduced it from £195 to £65.

14
Could someone help me determine if my sister  should appeal please. She didn’t notice the sign of no left turn and so used that entrance to turn around. I went there and sure enough, the sign wasn’t facing the motorists. What do you think please?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18FZOGj-EpFKWUatdNNUUXRgDiFzPieYr/view?usp=drivesdk

15
Thanks, I’ll check it for her daily and see when it goes up.

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