3. Messages

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - czgm1h

Pages: [1] 2 3
1
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: July 08, 2025, 05:16:24 pm »
Quote from: Enceladus on July 08, 2025, 03:23:51 pm
Well I don't know what to say. You seem to have done everything correctly. The TEC seemed to have made an error.

In particular your address as held by the DVLA was updated and processed before the date of contravention.

The SD and OOT are both attached to your email to the TEC and you have a receipt.

Have you got any confirmation from the council about where they sent the documentation, in particular the PCN?

I suppose you could write back and ask them to review their decision, how this is extra-procedural and would likely time-out your N244 application window. So I wouldn't recommend it.

Leaves us with an N244 application to have the Court Officer's decision at the TEC reviewed by a District Judge. This costs £123 for a hearing on the papers or £313 for a hearing in person. And you will not get the fees refunded, except as a matter of goodwill from the Council. And that seems to have only happened once.

I'm confident that you would succeed with a hearing in person. A hearing on the papers is risky. It needs to be very well written to succeed.

If you succeed with the review, then your SD would be accepted and the Order for Recovery would be revoked and the Charge Cert cancelled. The Council would have to serve the PCN again and you would have the option to pay at the discount or to challenge and ultimately appeal to the Adjudicator. I suggest that would likely loose at adjudication so you would end up paying a further £130.

How much have you already paid against this PCN, £205? This would be refunded when your SD is accepted?

No confirmation about where they sent the PCN. The only confirmation we have had is that they issued my PCNs to correct address based on their 'opposition letter' from the Haringey council which can be seen in previous posts.. but it never arrived.

I would like to respond and say that I would be keen on attending court hearing to see what could happen next, however I will be unable to due to my travel plans abroad for the next several months.

However, what I really would like to see is not for my decision to be overturned at this point, but to prevent errors like this one from happening again. I am not sure what would need to change, and where the starting point would be. However, I would like to see change for fairer approach to how PCNs are delivered to recipient.

I am signing out as I am quite busy with stuff at the moment so won't be responding (thread can be closed if needed), cheers :)

2
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: July 08, 2025, 02:55:53 pm »
Quote from: Enceladus on July 08, 2025, 02:23:55 pm
When and how did you submit the PE3 Statutory Declaration to the TEC. And did you send a completed PE2 Out of Time application with it?

It seems that the OOT application was not submitted or perhaps it was incorrectly completed. Please post up the OOT application. Only redact your name and address.

Hello Enceladus, I attach the Out of Time application that I signed and submitted (PE2 and PE3) via email on 9 April 2025



[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

3
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: July 08, 2025, 01:49:27 pm »
just posting an update to my out of time declaration, which you can see my reasons in comment [#33] - https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/enforcement-letter-without-correspondence/msg69292/#msg69292.

I sent it on 9th April 2025 (email) and today - 08 july 2025 I received a rejection based on 'no explanation why it was served late'. It appears the only options if I want to chase it further is to take it to court. I attach a photos in case it helps someone in the future ;)





[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

4
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: June 06, 2025, 06:05:57 pm »
Hello Enceladus, the opposing letter has been posted here earlier

Post #31

5
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: June 06, 2025, 10:57:46 am »
Hello All,

Today (06 June 2025) I paid final PCN - ZN1484088A for £65 as I noticed the system just updated the amount today.

This marks all PCNs paid for :D . Thanks for all the help received

I am still waiting for decision for my PE2, I will update here once I receive anything back

6
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: May 31, 2025, 02:27:45 pm »
Update

20 May 2025: Sent an email with signed & witnessed PE3 form for the final PCN when I noticed it was registered with TEC, this is for ZN1484088A.

31 May 2025: (Today) I received a letter from the county court regarding my latest PCN.

Is there anything I need to do with this letter? I have not received the same letter for ZN14587347 when sending the same PE3 form.

I would think this is safe to ignore and just wait for the price to drop from £205 to £65 and then pay

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

7
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: May 08, 2025, 11:02:02 am »
Update

08 May 2025:
- [ZN14587347] Received my first PCN from Haringey City Council.

The address on the letter does not have the range (xxx-xxx) of addresses I mentioned in my earlier post, I believe this is because this was taken from my PE3 form, and not DVLA.

Date of notice of this PCN letter is: 06/05/2025

I will proceed to pay this £65 later today.

NOTE: when I talk about range of addresses, this is what I mean:

DVLA address would look like: 123A (120-126) <Road Name>, London, <Post Code>
PCN address : 123A <Road Name>, London, <Post Code>

8
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: May 07, 2025, 10:31:29 am »
Quote from: Enceladus on May 06, 2025, 07:24:54 pm
Please clarify where you stand with with PCN ZN14202158?

AIUI the PCN escalated to bailiff enforcement.
You paid the bailiff to freeze the charges? How much did you pay and when exactly?
You subsequently submitted a Statutory Declaration with an Out of Time application? When exactly?

Have you heard anything about the OOT application from the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court and/or have you received a Statement of Truth document from the Council? If yes to either then please up what you received.

Thanks,

Morning,

1st of April 2025 - NOE of enforcement received for ZN14202158
2nd of April 2025 - Payment sent to enforcement agency for a total of £280 (this is including £75 complaince fee) for ZN14202158
9th of April 2025 - Witnessed & Signed & Submitted PE2 (out of time) and PE3 for ZN14202158 to tec@justice.gov.uk. Received email response back that it has been acknowledged. Response included "*If you have submitted an out of time application, please note that it will take approx. 8 – 10 weeks for a decision to be made. You will be informed of the outcome in due course."
29th April 2025 - Received Haringey City Council opposal letter for my out of time application - ZN14202158

- Latest update on this is from 29th April 2025, the opposal letter from the Haringey council. Nothing else received via post or email as of today (07 May 2025).

// Update
I just called TEC (07 may 2025) to get an update on the status of my PCNs directly:
ZN14202158 - informed me it might take around 8 - 14 weeks from the date the submission was made to get a decision (slightly higher than what's in email)
ZN1484088A - No update on debt registration yet (I expect this to happen within a week or so, looking at my previous PCN debt registration dates)

// Slightly off topic
I have a neighbour that I share the entry door with for post, she is an old grandma. I noticed that some letters addressed to my address have disappeared, I didn't pick them up as they were not in my name. I did ask her if she had accidentally took the letters in my name, but she said all she does is to write 'RTS - Return to Sender' and put it in the post for everything but my name. I just hope she doesn't have some sort of memory problems and mistakenly returned some of my letters... But I think that's unlikely given that Haringey opposal letter stated they haven't received any letters back.

9
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: May 06, 2025, 10:23:34 am »
Update, I woke up this morning to check the status of my PCNs and I see that one of them has disappeared from the list on council website (https://haringey.tarantoportal.com/PCNs/). Could it be because I submitted PE3 form? Only ZN14202158 and ZN1484088A is shown.  ZN14587347 is gone, do I expect a new PCN (for £65) ? , what If I don't receive this one as well (I hope at least it will be visible online so I will have the number of new PCN if there will be one)

10
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: May 02, 2025, 04:06:38 pm »
Quote from: Enceladus on May 02, 2025, 03:46:58 pm
Does the letter concern any of the three PCNs mentioned in this thread?

If so, please post it up, just redact your name & address. Leave everything else visible.

If not, then please start a new thread.

Unfortunately not, its not related to PCN.

I will try to get in touch with Royal Mail to see if perhaps there is any form of subject access request I can do, to see if they have logs of letters that were addressed to me between my move in date and 1st of may 2025

11
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: May 02, 2025, 03:27:44 pm »
Update, I went to check with my neighbours for any letters and decided to start recording video evidence. I have not found anything from the council but found different one that was addressed to me, for the correct address, but it was delivered to wrong address. Which means that mistakes happen, even if its Royal Mail

12
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: April 30, 2025, 10:34:51 am »
Quote
I will give the Council a call after 10am (non emergency hours) and see if they can give me some clarification as to what this status means and update here.

I called the Council and asked about 'On Hold - DMC Rule' - they responded they are not sure what that is, it could be some internal note such as software-specific code. All in All, it was on hold during that time. They couldn't elaborate more.


Quote from: Enceladus on April 30, 2025, 10:07:22 am
Yes, my apologies. I misunderstood that the SD for ZN14587347 has already been submitted.

For the purposes of Witness Statements and Statutory Declarations you are the Respondent and the Council/TFL is the Applicant. Did you get get that correct?

No problem :) Yes this is what I specified in each form.

Quote from: Enceladus on April 30, 2025, 10:07:22 am
Did you receive an Acknowledgement email from the TEC? Please keep it safe.

Do you still have the envelope that the Order for Recovery arrived in? Are there any postmarks that might indicate when it was posted?

I keep all my email, the acknowledgement from TEC as well.

On the envelope, there is nothing to indicate when it was posted or delivered. Some qr code of barcode length, and in the top-right just 'Royal Mail - Postage Paid GB - HQ 11730'

13
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: April 30, 2025, 09:30:57 am »
Quote from: Enceladus on April 30, 2025, 09:08:20 am
The OfR (Notice of Debt Registration) for PCN ZN14587347 was supposedly issued on Thursday the 17th April. So absent any evidence to indicate it wasn't posted on the 17th it is deemed served on the second working day after posting.  So it should have arrived with you not later than Monday the 21st April.

100% certain that it arrived on 24 April 2025. This is because I was going out on 23rd April 2025 to get my PE3 form signed and there was no letters.

Quote from: Enceladus on April 30, 2025, 09:08:20 am
PCN ZN14587347 is one of the two PCNs annotated as below. The meaning of "On hold DMC RULE" is as yet unexplained. That may or may not be relevant.

I will give the Council a call after 10am (non emergency hours) and see if they can give me some clarification as to what this status means and update here.

Quote from: Enceladus on April 30, 2025, 09:08:20 am
Anyway you now need to submit the PE3 Statutory Declaration to the Treffic Enforcement Centre.

Hello, sorry perhaps you missed this but as I already said:

(I already filled the PE3 form/witness and signed it and submitted it myself, on 23rd April 2025 (1 day before the order of recovery arrived)) - This was for ZN14587347.

14
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: April 30, 2025, 09:01:12 am »
added photo attachment

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

15
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enforcement Letter without Correspondence
« on: April 30, 2025, 08:52:37 am »
Yup the vehicle was sold recently. I can't deal with so much expenses unfortunately.

As to this: `So did you find out why Haringay didn't get the changed V5C address given the contravention was after the logbook change?`
I think they did have updated address. Why? Because in their opposing letter, it clearly states my address when they requested the details from DVLA.

Okay, for a second let's assume that what Council is saying is true. They have sent the stuff to my address, but I never received anything. Both versions are true. In this case I could think of one thing that has happened. The postman has delivered all my correspondence to wrong address - why do I suspect this? It is because My address has range of numbers in them, e.g. [MY House Number] [xxx-xxx] [Road Name]. That is one possibility perhaps?

Another update, which is unrelated to initial PCN, its the other one - I received my first 'Order for Recovery of unpaid penalty charge' for ZN14587347. Which is quite late?? This I received on 24 April 2025, which states I need to comply with the order by '12/05/2025', and date of contravention is 31/10/2024 (I already filled the PE3 form/witness and signed it and submitted it myself, on 23rd April 2025 (1 day before the order of recovery arrived))

Pages: [1] 2 3