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Messages - helpneeded1

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We are both new to the court process and how the legal system works for driving (or even other) offences, and we are very grateful for the kind help and advice given. I just ask that any advice be quite specific, as I don't want to make mistakes in this process, as it sounds like has happened in the way my wife responded to the Single Justice Procedure Notice (SJPN).

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...... the case will be listed for trial, as appears to be the case.


For the avoidance of doubt for the OP, the hearing to which he has been called will not be a trial court.  If the Not Guilty plea is maintained, a trial will be scheduled at that hearing for a later date.

So the letter she has now received is called the 'Summons to Court'. Are you definitely sure that this is just a pre-trial hearing? What should my wife do at this Court sitting in order to obtain the 'plea deal'?

Alternatively, is there anything that can be done to get the 'plea deal' between now and the Court sitting? Should we write another letter to the SJPN address?

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As the online plea was submitted prior to the paper form being sent, it's probable that the online not guilty plea to both offences (without the consideration for the failing to furnish being dropped) is what would have been accepted by the court before the paper plea arrived hence the reason for being called in for a hearing for both offences.

So the only way to have obtained the 'plea deal' was by sending back the paper form, rather than the online form? What can we do now to obtain the 'plea deal'?

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My wife responded using the paper form, pleading not guilty to both and stating the reasons why.

What exactly did she say ?

If her reasons consisted of potential defences to both charges then the expected outcome would be that the case will be listed for trial, as appears to be the case.

She gave defences to both charges, which is what she thought she is required to do. She stated the reasons I wrote in my opening post in this thread, but provided more detail. The SJPN letter mentioned that the reasons should be stated for each not-guilty plea, otherwise a less favourable judgement will be given. We thought this was what she was supposed to do. Was she meant to write the plea proposal into those boxes instead, and leave out any defence of her actions? How can we salvage this in order to obtain the 'plea deal'?

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My wife responded using the paper form, pleading not guilty to both and stating the reasons why. She attached a letter to this form, as a few of you advised, expressing that she is open to considering the plea deal, whereby she changes her speeding plea to guilty and the second charge is dropped.

Just in case the letter was lost in the post or not delivered in time, she also submitted the pleas online the day before. The online form obviously did not provide anywhere to attach the separate 'deal' letter or proposal.

Anyway, so she has now received a response through the post and they have invited her to attend a court hearing for both charges. They have not mentioned anything about the plea deal she proposed. Should she call them up, or write another letter to them? Or should she just wait for the court hearing date and make the proposal again on the day itself? I assume the fines/costs will increase if the deal is only accepted on the court hearing date.

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Thank you, all. We will do that. You have all been so very helpful and we cannot thank you enough for your generous input!

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Thank you.
So, in order to have the conviction for the speeding offence only, would it be best to plead non-guilty to both offences on the form, and write a note to say she will change the non-guilty plea to the speeding offence in return for the second charge being dropped?

If so, how can a non-guilty plea for the speeding, once submitted on the form, be changed to a guity plea?

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The usual way is to see the prosecutor on the day to offer to plead guilty to the speeding if the FtF is dropped - they will often accept.



So would this method only work if my wife were to plead non-guilty to both charges initially, in order to force a court hearing? And then meet the prosecutor on the day itself?

What if the court hearing is done online instead? How would one be able to meet the prosecutor beforehand? I have read that they started using virtual court hearings during COVID-19 times.

Also, in case the court hearing is in person, is the prosecutor always easily accessible prior to the hearing? Are there occasions when they cannot be found? What would we do then?

What about sending an email to the prosecutor in advance to make the deal? Would that be advisable?

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How certain are you that you were driving?

Only 60/40 or maybe 70/30.

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...and the website itself provided the option of not identifying a driver, which gave the impression that this is a legitimate response.
Hmmm - out of interest can you elaborate on this?  (Although I do not see it providing any defence)
Quote


I'm surprised if the website offered an option of not being able to identify the driver as many people would take that as meaning that an "I don't know" response was one that was acceptable.

My wife (the RK) and I (the driver) both answered s172 requests last year.  I'm sure I kept copies of our responses somewhere - I think I'll check to see how the question was phrased.

Unfortunately, we did not take screenshots of the website form when my wife filled it out. It was done back in October/November 2024, so my memory is a little hazy. However, I do recall that there was an option to tick to the effect of not being able to provide the name of the driver. My wife ticked this box and then it took her to a box to give an explanation. She filled this box, stating the reason why she could not provide the name. We were ignorant of the law and did not realise that doing this would result in a police charge.

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Thank you all for your responses. They are quite helpful.

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Thank you.
How likely is she to succeed in pleading non-guilty to both in court, though? At the time of responding to the Notice of Intended Prosecution, we had only checked our own diaries. We had not checked bank statements. It is only now, after being advised by the solicitors, that I have seen a particular expenditure from a shop on my bank statement, that I feel makes it slightly more likely that I was driving. My wife's bank statements do not show any activity for the day in question.

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Would anyone be able to help with a double charge of speeding and failing to provide information on the driver?

We live in Hertfordshire.

My wife received a NIP in November 2024 for her vehicle speeding on a weekend at around 16:00. We share the vehicle almost equally. The road is just 2-3 minutes' drive away from our house and we need to use it to get to most places in the town, so any one of us could have been driving the vehicle at that time. We both checked our diaries and could not tell who was driving. The online form to respond to the NIP provided an option to the effect of being unable to confirm who was driving the vehicle, and then provided a box to give more details on the reason why. My wife filled out this form in good faith and gave these reasons. She did not want to guess the driver as she feared a mistake could be seen as perverting the course of justice. She thought her response would prompt the police to write back and advise her further about what to do. The submission was filed within the required 28 days and was acknowledged by the website.

My wife was, therefore, very surprised to receive a Single Justice Procedure Notice recently, stating that she has been charged with exceeding the speed limit and failing to identify the driver. We feel this is very unfair as she complied with the request to respond within 28 days, and the website itself provided the option of not identifying a driver, which gave the impression that this is a legitimate response.

I have spoken with a few motoring solicitors but they are asking for £1500-£2000 to defend my wife. One said it will cost £1500 for them to negotiate informally with the prosecutor for them to drop the failing to furnish charge in exchange for a guilty plea on the speeding charge. Alternatively, they want £2000 to attend court and defend my wife, if she pleads non-guilty to both charges. One solicitor on JustAnswer (who did not inspire me with confidence) said my wife should just plead non-guilty to both and try to defend herself in front of the judge, despite the risks.

Following the recent advice of solicitors, we have now checked our bank statements and I feel that, on the balance of probabilities, I have may have been more likely to have been driving the vehicle at the time of the offence, as I go to the particular shop showing on the bank statement more frequently than my wife does. I would say I feel it is 70% likely to be me. However, this is still a guess and we do not know for sure.

We do not wish to pay such substantial sums to a solicitor if it is something that we can just do ourselves. Neither of us have ever previously had any driving points or convictions, or any other criminal charges for that matter. We just want the best option in terms of minimal cost and minimal points and minimal future implications. I have read online and feel we definitely do not want a S172 conviction due to its implications on future car insurance bills.

Which option do people suggest?
1. Pay a solicitor £1500 to informally negotiate with the prosecutor to drop the failing to furnish charge in exchange for a guilty plea on the speeding charge?
2. Contact the prosecutor ourselves to negotiate dropping the failing to furnish charge in exchange for a guilty plea on the speeding charge? If so, how would they be contacted though and what should we say?
3. Plead non-guilty to both charges and explain the circumstances to the judge? Would this be too risky though?
4. Plead guilty to the speeding charge and non-guilty to the failure to furnish charge, assuming the prosecutor will automatically drop the failure to furnish charge prior to the court date?

Are there any other suggestions we could try instead? Thank you, in advance, for all for your help and knowledge!

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