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Messages - skywalks

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1
Hey all,

I just wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone who helped me with my PCN. I got a letter back from SCC today and they have cancelled the pcn and no charges needed to be made.

They said this was due to their discretion and it being my first ever charge, however I know that it was all down to the expertise provided here and especially by Hippocrates.

Thank you for the kindness and expertise provided! I truly appreciate it and will be finding ways to pay it forward.

Have a great easter weekend!

Big love

2
Thank you so much, I will send this today. What grounds should i be choosing for this representation? (i.e. the letters listed on the back of PCN)

3
Okay, thank you!

I want to try send it in fairly promptly as I can as I want to make sure the discounted charge doesn't go up and I end up having to pay double. They also took nearly 3 weeks to send me the letter in the first place. But I will wait until you've had some more time to find the answers you're looking for.

By interchangeable signs do you mean that the rectangle or circle signs can be used for either a bus lane or bus gate?

It'll be important to add to the representation that 2 different SCC staff advised me to challenge it 1) Because they confirmed it was a bus gate and not a bus lane so the place listed is wrong and 2) the 2nd staff member was confused by the representation options on the back of the letter.

Thanks

5
Great thank you for all the research you are doing! I really appreciate it. I'm hoping to send it by this evening, so I will check in later and clarify with you the other bits I should include E.g. What about the website is wrong? And the other areas you've highlighted.

Thanks again! Have a good morning and speak soon

6
Okay, thank you! I will hold off sending in my representation for a little bit longer.

7
I think I might need to try send some form of representation today as i'm aware the days are getting away and they'll also then need to respond. I don't want to end up paying a much higher fine. Any last minutes tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

11
Thank you for responding, I couldn't find anything on the woking website but on the Brighton and Hove website and other council websites they talk about the difference between a bus gate and bus lane which seems to match up with the info i've found online:

"What a bus gate is
A bus gate is a short section of road which only buses and authorised vehicles can go through as shown by appropriate signage.

How a bus gate is different to a bus lane
A bus lane is marked by a solid thick white line and the words ‘Bus Lane’ which are periodically marked on the road. Only buses and authorised vehicles can travel in the bus lane as shown by appropriate signage."

And this is the Gov Uk website info on bus and cycle signs and road markings:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/bus-and-cycle-signs-and-road-markings

Anything that refers to a Bus gate has a circular sign with it and whenever they talk about bus lane it appears to have a rectangular sign with it and from my understanding and what other council sites have said, would need to have bus lane written on the road and the solid thick white line (which isn't present).

When I phoned Surrey County Council who actually issues the PCN, they were also confused, put me on hold and then confirmed that it is a bus gate and encouraged me to challenge (which is very odd when it's SCC who sent the penalty in the first place). I do not think I would be able to challenge them on the signage itself but the fact that the information in my PCN is incorrect as it doesn't mention a bus gate anywhere and the place the incident took place is called High Street Woking (Bus Lane) and it isn't one.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

12
How about the below:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) issued to me for allegedly driving in a bus lane. I believe the charge is incorrect, and I am requesting that the PCN be cancelled for the following reasons:

Signage and Road Markings Inconsistency
According to the Government's guidance on bus and cycle signs, road markings, and the Highway Code, the area in question does not have the appropriate signage or road markings to designate it as a bus lane. There are no visible signs indicating the presence of a bus lane, nor are there any road markings that would suggest it is a bus lane.

The signage in this area indicates to a "bus gate," which is not mentioned anywhere in the PCN I received. This discrepancy between the PCN's description and the actual road signage has caused confusion, and the information provided on the PCN does not accurately reflect the situation.

Confusion During Telephone Enquiries
I contacted Surrey County Council on the morning of March 10th, 2025, at 10:08 am for clarification. The staff member I spoke to was initially unsure whether the location in question was a bus lane or a bus gate. After putting me on hold and consulting with colleagues, the staff member confirmed that it is, in fact, a bus gate. However, I was advised to challenge the PCN because the information provided in the notice was incorrect.

I called Surrey County Council again at 10:44 am to seek further clarification on which representation grounds would be appropriate for my case. The staff member I spoke to was also unsure and had to consult with colleagues once more, as they were unable to confirm the correct grounds for challenge and said it could fall under three. I questioned how unclear this was and they also encouraged me to include this in a representation. This further reinforces the confusion and lack of clarity surrounding the PCN and the signage.

Inaccurate Information in the PCN
Based on my conversations with Surrey County Council and the guidance on road signage and markings, I believe the PCN incorrectly describes the place as a bus lane. The place in question is actually a bus gate, and the signage and road markings do not support the claim that it is a bus lane. The conflicting information I received from the council staff only adds to the confusion surrounding the matter.

Given the above points, I respectfully request that you reconsider and cancel the Penalty Charge Notice, as the information provided is inaccurate and misleading. The confusion caused by the signage and the conflicting advice from Surrey County Council staff further supports my claim that the penalty charge was issued in error.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,
[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[PCN Reference Number]


Should I include ownership that the footage clearly shows I have made a mistake and once I had realised I was stuck in a one way system (I owned that on both phone calls because I don't challenge that) but that it is my first time ever driving in the area, I got rerouted on the sat nav due to roadworks in the area, its my first ever charge and the confusion by multiple staff members of Surrey County Council suggests that the information needs to be more clear to help myself and others avoid mistakes like this in the future. I am grateful to now know to avoid this mistake if i ever drive in the area in future.

13
Thanks for the response.

Even if on the phone today, Surrey County Council said I should challenge it?

I have also spoken to them again just now and they were not sure which representation grounds I should tick for it and told me to tick three different ones (A the alleged contravention did not occur, F There has been a procedural impropriety by the enforcement authority and also other grounds). So there's a lot of confusion and no one seems to be clear at Surrey CC and the staff member I spoke to just now said I should include that in my representation also.

14
Good morning,

I called Surrey County Council today and queried whether it is actually a bus lane as stated in my PCN. The lady on the phone had to go and check with colleagues and confirmed that the letter is wrong, it is a bus gate and not a bus lane so it would be a different contravention code and I should definitely challenge it.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can please draft this challenge? I am not the best at writing and have never had to do anything like this before.

The details are that on 15th February 2025, I was driving in Woking for the first time and got rerouted by my satnav due to a number of roadworks happening at the time. During the reroute, at 12.14 I unknowingly drove through a restricted area for unauthorised cars at that time. I received a PCN via the post on 7th March 2025 notifying me that I am receiving a penalty for contravention 34J Being in a bus lane (camera enforcement) for driving in High Street Woking (Bus Lane). However as per UK Government Guidance for Bus and cycle signs and road markings and the Highway code, none of the signage or road markings reflect that it is a bus lane that I drove through or match what the place has been called (High street woking (bus lane)). I have since called Surrey County Council at 10.0am today (March 10th) and spoke to their PCN team and upon further investigation, they have confirmed that it is not an official bus lane that I drove through but a bus gate, so my penalty is for driving through a bus gate which is a restricted area from 7am-9pm for unauthorised vehicles. I owned that I have clearly made a mistake in the area from seeing the footage sent to me but I am confused by which mistake i'm being charged for, they encouraged me to challenge this PCN online or by post as I therefore have received the wrong information and contravention code. I believe all their calls are recorded for training purposes etc so there should be evidence of this conversation.

Any help and advice on what to write would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

15
Thank you for the message. I must have somehow deleted the blackout on those details before i've saved it. I've removed the document now. I will try call and speak to the council on Monday but will pay the £35 if not and take it as a lesson learned. Thank you for your help

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