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The hearing actually didn't go ahead yesterday - I got a call the afternoon before from London Tribunals telling me not to attend because Greenwich haven't provided any evidence.

I received the email just now saying:
The adjudicator directs Royal Borough of Greenwich to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.

Adjudicator's Reasons
This appeal is listed for video hearing later today. The hearing will not now take place given the council has not provided its evidence, there thus being no case for the appellant to answer. The appeal is allowed.

And that's the end of that.   

Thanks everyone for your support. You're providing such a valuable service and if it wasn't for you, I would have just paid the fine to avoid the stress.   

Turns out the fine was illegitimate in the first instance and shouldn't have been issued... but that didn't stop the council. I never would have stuck it out without your help.

Thank you again you absolute Rockstars!!!

GoldFishBowl25

Hi John U.K and Andyjh,

Thanks so much for your response - I read the thread that Andyjh referenced, it's the exact same issue.. well spotted!  That has actually really reassured me

I have checked the portal again and the council have not uploaded any new evidence. I will give the a call tomorrow to see what's happening with that.


Should I update my appeal with this statement from Andykh's thread Reply#1, or just leave it as is:

"The box junction does not conform to the requirements of TSRGD schedule 9 part 11 para 6 . I will supply more detail at a later date before any hearing"?

Thanks for your help!

GoldFishBowl25

just post on the forum to keep the tread live I will draft you a skeleton argument all you need do is present it and answer questions that may be asked by the adjudicator

I will draft the skeleton before I visit my son mid august though if you can do not submit it until the council upload their evidence. I will be back well before the hearing to review it

Hi,

Can you help me with the draft argument please?  I haven't seen anything uploaded to portal in terms of evidence yet - I've never attended one of these hearings so I have no idea what to expect.

Thanks very much

GoldFishBowl25

Thanks so much - really appreciated x

Hi Pastmybest,

I have now submitted the appeal online with the wording you provided above.  This is the case reference number: 2250281616

This was the response from the online appeal form:

What happens next:
The tribunal will review your submitted appeal and let you know if it is accepted within 7 days.

If you do not receive confirmation of the hearing date within 7 days contact us.

If you have further evidence, this can be uploaded by going to Return to my appeal

Any evidence must be uploaded 7 days before your hearing date or posted 14 days before to London Tribunals, PO Box 10598, NOTTINGHAM, NG6 6DR


So now we wait and see what they come back with.

Thanks so much - and I'll post any updates as they come in.

GoldFishBowl

Hi MrChips,

Thanks for your response.  Here's the 2nd page of the rejection notice and the appeal form.

I missed the 14 day discounted penalty charge window, so I'll have to appeal now (I think I would have done that anyway on principle).

Please can you give me a steer on what to say in the appeal please.  The ChatGPT route didn't go well for me last time. 

Thank you again for your help - really appreciated

GoldFishBowl25

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Hi - I couldn't get a response out of my dad since your last post, despite several attempts.  But today he said he settled the matter for £195

So in the end he paid even more than if he had paid the 2nd notice.

I knew he would struggle with the challenge process ... looks like he avoided dealing with it.  It must have been a third letter that came through or the order for recovery that made him respond and ultimately pay up.

Thanks for your help with this and for checking in again. Much appreciated.
 

Hi John,

ChatGPT generated - it looked okay to me, so I used it (I didn't not fact-check the case though!), and obviously I filled in the personal details


[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, Postcode]
[Email Address]
[Phone Number]

Date: [Insert Date]

Greenwich Council
Parking Services
[Insert Address]
[City, Postcode]

Re: Challenge to PCN [Insert PCN Number] – Entering and Stopping in a Box Junction

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) referenced above, issued for allegedly entering and stopping in a box junction at [insert location] on [insert date].

Upon reviewing the video footage of the incident, it is clear that while my vehicle entered the box junction, it did so with sufficient clearance. The very tail end of my vehicle briefly touched the end of the box junction, but I did not fully obstruct the junction, and there was ample space ahead to continue moving forward. At no point did my vehicle block the flow of traffic or create an obstruction, which aligns with the spirit of the regulations governing box junctions.

Relevant Legislation and Guidance:

The Road Traffic (London) Act 2003, Section 16(3): This legislation specifies that a vehicle must not stop within a box junction unless it is unavoidable due to stationary traffic. In my case, my vehicle did not stop within the junction but only briefly entered the end of the box, where there was sufficient space to move forward and exit without causing obstruction.

The Highway Code (Rule 174): This rule specifies that drivers should only stop in a box junction when they are prevented from moving by stationary traffic. As seen in the footage, I did not remain stationary in the box but was able to continue forward.

Case Law - London Borough of Waltham Forest v. Jamil (2015): In this case, the adjudicator ruled that a minor infringement of the box junction at the tail end, where there was clear room to move forward, did not constitute a contravention as long as the driver did not cause an obstruction or remain stationary within the box.

In light of these facts and the supporting legal framework, I respectfully request that you reconsider this penalty charge. The minor touch of the junction at the rear of my vehicle, while the front of the car was clear to move forward, should not be penalized, as the vehicle did not obstruct the flow of traffic or create any hazard.

Please confirm that the PCN has been cancelled or provide further details should you require additional information to review this challenge.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

Yours sincerely,
[Your Name]
[PCN Number]