3. Messages

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - MaleDriver

Pages: [1]
1
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Undue Care & Attention resulting in collision. NIP & not sure what to expect.
« on: March 14, 2025, 05:31:39 pm »
Hi all - quick update o the above:

Got letter through from police today (14/3) - been offered a driver’s education course (3 hours, online, £95) instead of prosecution, so no fine, points or anything else on condition of completing the course. Needless to say I’ve accepted, booked and paid already. Huge weight off of my mind and no longer dreading the postman/anxiously waiting for other shoe to drop.

Thanks again for everyone's replies

2
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Undue Care & Attention resulting in collision. NIP & not sure what to expect.
« on: March 03, 2025, 07:22:17 pm »
All,

Thanks for taking the time to reply - everyone has helped in answering questions, calibrating my expectations and massively dialing down my anxiety & uncertainty over this. My anxiety fuelled imagination has been catastophising terribly since last Thursday.

Quote from: Southpaw82 on March 03, 2025, 03:31:21 pm
Does the NIP ask you to respond (strictly, you don’t respond to an NIP, you respond to a request under s 172 to name the driver - though often they are on the same form). Bearing in mind that as there was an accident that you are clearly aware of no NIP is legally required, and you were (presumably) identified at the scene there seems little point in a s 172 notice, but if you have one you must respond.

For a low level accident such as this, the sentencing guidelines suggest a fine of between 50% and 150% of your relevant weekly income (broadly, net after tax) and between 3 and 9 points. The fine will be reduced by 1/3rd following a guilty plea at the first opportunity.

On top of this will be prosecution costs (not very large following a guilty plea) and a victim surcharge of 40% of the fine.

You can ask for time to pay in instalments. You do not need a lawyer, and often it is a waste of money.

I had read the sentencing guidelines to try and get an idea, but this helps narrow those guidelines further. Thankfully I have savings I can use to meet the cost of a likely fine, having a reasonably well paid job.

Reassuring to know about probably not needing a lawyer, especially when planning to enter a guilty plea from the start.

Quote from: andy_foster on March 03, 2025, 03:42:23 pm
Quote from: MaleDriver on March 03, 2025, 02:33:33 pm
Office then advised I would be charged with Undue Care & Attention & would be getting a NIP through the post as they didn't have a printer with them.

Pet peeve, particularly for those on the spectrum - you are not being charged with being unduly careful!

As is including statements and questions together in a list.

Quote
  • As I am inarguably the cause of the collision by turning right into another vehicle, I plan on pleading guilty.
  • I've no prior driving or criminal convictions. This is my first brush with the police ever.
  • I'm 52, driven for 29 years. Did get an automated speeding ticket for 60mph through motorway roadworks 50mph zone in 2006
  • Both the police and my insurers asked if any airbags went off. They didn't - is this a rough 'rule of thumb' to determine speed of impact?
  • I was given no warning either verbally or via the printed sheet from my dentist that I should avoid driving or similar after the tooth extraction. I would have left my car there and got bus/walked if I'd felt in any way impaired to drive.
  • As I am inarguably the cause of the collision by turning right into another vehicle, I plan on pleading guilty.

A few questions if I may:

  • I understand that with a collision and therefore damage being involved, this automatically means Summons to Court, by passing fixed penalty or driver awareness courses. Is this right?

We do not doubt that you understand that. We do doubt that it is a hard and fast rule.

Quote
  • Having received the NIP with driver already identified, all my details correct etc, is there anything I should do to respond to it at this stage?

You have seen the till receipt NIP and we haven't. Unless there is anything in the NIP that requires, requests or invites a response, then probably not.

Quote
  • When the Summons to Court arrives, am I likely to be offered to be able to submit a guilty plea in writing? If so, is the fine/points/punishent likely to spelled out before I submit my plea or does that happen afterwards?

Yes. No.

Quote
  • I read on different sites that the fine can be 'up to £2500', 'up to £5000' and '£unlimited'. Trying to find out the potential/likely fine for my own circumstances (first time offender, guilty plea etc) is almost impossible. Even trying to find out typical fines is impossible. Does anyone have any idea or experience of what I might expect?

Those would be statutory maxima for various offences (off the top of my head, band 4 and band 5). That is the maximum the law allows if you were a very, very naughty boy.
The statutory bands are set out in Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. The Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines, will give you a better idea of what a court might actually sentence.

Quote
  • At what stage should I engage (ie pay for) legal advice? If offered, should I engage legal advice/repsentation to enter a written plea?

You will not be offered legal aid. If you are pleading guilty, it is not immediately obvious what benefit paying several hundred quid for a brief would bring.

N.B. As a matter of law, a person waving flashing you out (unless acting as a banksman) is deemed to be solely indicating that they are ceding priority to you, and not advising you that it is safe to pull out.

In theory, civil liability for the other party's damage and the criminal offence of careless driving are separate issues, but both hinge on being negligent. If the circumstances were such that it was impossible to see the other car, then arguably he was at fault for driving too fast for the conditions. If you simply were not looking properly, then it would seem to be you.

This is all very, very helpful & informative and reassuring. The accident was very much my own fault (a simple look left again after seeing the lady stop her line of traffic to let me out would have saved me all of this) and I've no intention of trying to reallocate any blame or responsibility to her.

Knowing I'll likely be able to enter a written guilty plea and that this may both spare me attending court and may count towards both fine reduction and prosecution costs is most reassuring.

Quote from: Sander333 on March 03, 2025, 03:46:01 pm
In the case you have described there are a number of options open to the police.
There could be an option of a driver awareness course for example I was knocked off my motorcycle by a car driver who failed to see me travelling along a major road. He was in the minor road and pulled out causing me to suffer a fractured spine and pelvis my brand new motorcycle was written off. He was offered a driver awareness course which he accepted. I was not bitter at this as it was an accident and whatever other punishment was the alternative would not expedite my recovery.

It really depends on what the Criminal Justice Unit decision maker places on their recommendation. As has been outlined no NIP required. You will have to wait and see what the next steps are.

Will see what happens when I return a written plea and acceptance of guilt (should it be offered). And I admire you lack of bitterness with your own collision/accident.

Thanks again everyone, this is so appreciated!

3
Speeding and other criminal offences / Undue Care & Attention resulting in collision. NIP & not sure what to expect.
« on: March 03, 2025, 02:33:33 pm »
Hi all,

Newly registered here; spent the morning fruitlessly searching for information and getting only legal representation adverts/links.

I was involved in a low level bump last week, wholly my fault. I'd been to have a dental extraction at a health centre. Looking to turning right out of the health centre car park onto a B road, cars parked both sides of the road and another car directly opposite the T junction. Looked left, saw road was clear, looked right & round parked up vehicles limiting visibility. Lady at the head of the traffic on the RHS stopped and motioned for me to have way. I pulled forward and into the side of a car coming from the left. A momentary lapse of concentration and bump. Damage to my car was minimal (slightly dented bumper and **** headlight cover), damage to other vehicle was dented doors on the drivers side.

Checked with other driver & passengers for injuries (none) and began exchanging details. Passenger of other car asked if I objected to police being called. I said no, go ahead. Police arrive and also checks for injuries and began taking details, driving licenses etc. Both drivers breathalysed, no issue there. A witness took to the time to stop and give both drivers her details and also gave statement to the police. I understand (ie do not know for certain) that she said about parked cars, low/dazzling sun when looking one way down the road I was turning into, "just one of those things".

Office then advised I would be charged with Undue Care & Attention & would be getting a NIP through the post as they didn't have a printer with them. Both drivers then told we were free to go as both cars were still drivable/road worthy.

NIP (looking like a printed supermarket receipt) came through the door the following day, advising of Summons to Court and details would be 'forthcoming'.

I've spent the time since trying to find out what I can expect from here on in, and before finding this site running almost exclusively into adverts and links for legal representation. Not that it is relevant to anyone but me but as a diagnosed autistic, the uncertainty over what to expect is making me quite ill.

  • As I am inarguably the cause of the collision by turning right into another vehicle, I plan on pleading guilty.
  • I've no prior driving or criminal convictions. This is my first brush with the police ever.
  • I'm 52, driven for 29 years. Did get an automated speeding ticket for 60mph through motorway roadworks 50mph zone in 2006
  • Both the police and my insurers asked if any airbags went off. They didn't - is this a rough 'rule of thumb' to determine speed of impact?
  • I was given no warning either verbally or via the printed sheet from my dentist that I should avoid driving or similar after the tooth extraction. I would have left my car there and got bus/walked if I'd felt in any way impaired to drive.
  • As I am inarguably the cause of the collision by turning right into another vehicle, I plan on pleading guilty.

A few questions if I may:

  • I understand that with a collision and therefore damage being involved, this automatically means Summons to Court, by passing fixed penalty or driver awareness courses. Is this right?
  • Having received the NIP with driver already identified, all my details correct etc, is there anything I should do to respond to it at this stage?
  • When the Summons to Court arrives, am I likely to be offered to be able to submit a guilty plea in writing? If so, is the fine/points/punishent likely to spelled out before I submit my plea or does that happen afterwards?
  • I read on different sites that the fine can be 'up to £2500', 'up to £5000' and '£unlimited'. Trying to find out the potential/likely fine for my own circumstances (first time offender, guilty plea etc) is almost impossible. Even trying to find out typical fines is impossible. Does anyone have any idea or experience of what I might expect?
  • At what stage should I engage (ie pay for) legal advice? If offered, should I engage legal advice/repsentation to enter a written plea?

Apologies for the long post (autism = all the details in my case!) and thank in advance for any thoughts anyone might care to share.

Pages: [1]