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1
Europcar replied: "We will always attempt to transfer liability where the fine issuer allows us to do so."

Apparently:
"Under the Traffic Management Act 2004 (Schedule 4A), councils are required to allow transfer of liability for PCNs issued to hire vehicles when the hired vehicle:

Was on hire at the time of the alleged contravention, and

The hire company provides evidence (e.g., hire agreement) linking the vehicle to the hirer.

This applies across all English councils and is not discretionary — it is statutory."

2
This morning I saw a Traffic Warden (CEO) issuing a PCN in the exact same location and spoke to him about the sign being turned away from the single yellow line.

He confirmed:
  • The sign should be facing the road/yellow line.
  • It’s not correctly positioned.
  • Someone must have twisted it.
  • His manager told him to follow CPZ hours (Mon–Sat).
  • When I said my PCN was on a Sunday, he said I should appeal and it should be cancelled.

I’ve also photographed all other yellow line signs nearby — they all face the carriageway except this one.

https://imgpile.com/p/W7tVKJg#4iAuESi

I’ve now submitted my appeal. Any thoughts on strengthening it further before the 28-day deadline?

3
Thanks for the guidance so far.

I’ve emailed Europcar - no response yet. I decided to submit an informal challenge to test the council’s position and preserve the discount. Below this message is a copy of my draft appeal. I would really appreciate any comments on the wording or approach before I submit it.

My argument is that although I now understand the restriction, the relevant yellow line sign was rotated away from the carriageway and not visible from where I parked. It was only after receiving the PCN and returning in daylight that I found it. I believe that fails the requirement for adequate signage.

Any suggestions on tightening this up or strengthening the signage argument would be very welcome.

Also, if liability is transferred from Europcar to me and it progresses to London Tribunals, does this read like something an adjudicator would properly consider, or am I missing a stronger technical angle?

I’ve also uploaded a short video to show what this stretch of road is actually like in practice. It demonstrates how vehicles tend to approach at around 30mph, how narrow the carriageway becomes near the pedestrian refuge island, and the lack of proper footway alongside the single yellow line.

It was raining heavily on the night I parked, and the verge was wet and muddy. I didn’t feel it was safe to start walking along the edge of the carriageway looking for additional signage, particularly with traffic moving at speed and no proper pavement where I was parked. The video hopefully gives a clearer sense of the conditions and why the misaligned sign was not apparent from where I parked the vehicle.

Any thoughts on whether this strengthens the signage argument would be appreciated. (had to split the video into 2 files to upload them)

https://cdn.imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#hdOZmOf

https://cdn.imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#cF51eyw


APPEAL TEXT:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to formally appeal the above Penalty Charge Notice [number], which was issued on Sunday morning at 8:49 AM for parking on a single yellow line.

I wish to challenge PCN  on the basis that the restriction was not adequately signed in accordance with the council’s duty to provide clear and lawful signage.

I hold a valid resident permit for this area and have lived locally for approximately nine years. During this time, I have always made every effort to comply with parking restrictions and have never knowingly parked in contravention of them.

On the evening prior to the PCN being issued, I returned home after dark and, as is frequently the case in this area, there were no available resident parking bays. I therefore parked on the single yellow line.

Before leaving the vehicle, I checked the only sign  visible from my position beside the vehicle. That sign indicated a Monday–Saturday restriction and gives no indication that parking was prohibited at the time I parked.

As single yellow line restrictions commonly mirror the operational hours shown on nearby parking plates, I reasonably understood that parking on the Sunday morning would be unrestricted.

The sign that apparently applies to the single yellow line was not visible from where I parked. It is rotated away from the carriageway and from the length of single yellow line to which it relates. It was only after receiving the PCN, and returning in daylight to investigate, that I located this sign turned away from the road it applies to. It would not reasonably be seen by a motorist approaching or parking on that side of the road, particularly at night.

This is a relatively busy road with narrow running lanes and a central pedestrian refuge on either side of the location which constrains traffic flow. Vehicles regularly travel at 30mph. There is no proper pavement at the precise location where the sign is positioned, and on the night I parked there the verge was wet and muddy due to recent heavy rain. It would not be reasonable or safe to expect a motorist to walk into or alongside live traffic in order to search for signage that should have been clearly visible from the point of parking.

The authority has a duty to ensure that signage is clearly visible and correctly oriented toward the carriageway and the restriction it regulates.

I have taken photographs and video which demonstrate that:
* the nearest visible sign indicates restrictions Monday to Saturday only;
* no signage facing the direction of travel or parking location clearly indicates Sunday restrictions; and
* the relevant sign appears orientated away from approaching drivers, making it difficult to see from the carriageway.

Under Regulation 18 of the Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996, the authority has a duty to ensure that traffic signs are placed so that adequate information is made available to road users regarding the effect of a Traffic Regulation Order.

In addition, the Traffic Signs Manual (Chapter 3) published by the Department for Transport states that signs must be positioned so that drivers can easily see and understand the restriction before or at the time of parking. Restrictions must be clearly conveyed and not rely on drivers locating signage that is obscured, poorly orientated, or not visible from the relevant parking position.

In this case, the combination of:
* the clearly visible nearby sign indicating Monday–Saturday restrictions,
* the absence of visible signage facing the location where the vehicle was parked,
* the orientation of the relevant sign away from approaching drivers, and
* the risk posed by the road’s speed and traffic density
led me to reasonably believe that parking on Sunday morning was permitted.

Given that the relevant sign was misaligned and not facing the carriageway or the regulated length of yellow line, I submit that the restriction was not adequately conveyed and the PCN should be cancelled.

I am a long-standing resident and permit holder who made a genuine effort to comply with the restrictions. The signage arrangement at this location is misleading and does not clearly communicate the applicable restriction to motorists parking on that section of road, particularly at night and on a busy road.

I respectfully request that the council review the attached photographs and cancel this PCN on the basis that the restriction was not adequately or clearly signed and that reasonable safety considerations prevent drivers from having to inspect signage in person.

Please let me know if any further information is required.

If the council does not accept this challenge, I request:
   •   CEO notes
   •   Confirmation of the signage inspection and maintenance records for this location

I look forward to your response.

4
I do understand the situation now,  what I’m trying to get across is that at the time of parking, the restriction applicable to the single yellow line was not adequately conveyed. I thought that under the regulations, the authority has a duty to ensure that the effect of a traffic order is adequately indicated by traffic signs. My point is that a time plate rotated away from the carriageway and not visible from the parking position does not adequately convey the restriction.

It was only after receiving the PCN, and returning in daylight specifically to search the area, that I located the relevant time plate. It is oriented away from where a driver would reasonably stand after parking. I don’t think it is correct to say that simply because a sign exists somewhere nearby, the restriction is necessarily adequately signed.

This is a relatively busy road with traffic usually moving at 30mph. It is the kind of road where you have to be very careful even getting in and out of the vehicle. There is no proper footway at the exact point where I parked, and further ahead there is a central pedestrian refuge island which narrows the carriageway and channels vehicles into tighter lanes. Walking along the edge of that stretch of carriageway to search for signage, particularly at night and in wet conditions, does not feel safe or reasonable. I would argue that the test should be whether the restriction is clearly visible to a reasonably diligent motorist from the vehicle or its immediate vicinity, not whether it can be discovered after a search.

I accept that this would not be a guaranteed win. However, my concern is not that I misunderstood a clearly presented restriction, it is that the relevant sign is misaligned in a way that fails to properly face the traffic to which it applies.

My uncertainty at this stage is because this is a Europcar courtesy vehicle, I’m not yet sure whether liability will be transferred to me, which would allow me to take the matter to a Tribunal. If it is transferred and I am able to make formal representations, then I would be prepared to test whether the signage satisfies the requirement to adequately convey the restriction.

5
Thanks for your response.

Here is a daylight photo of the location showing the road markings more clearly: https://imgpile.com/p/ZWkGqPI

I was aware I was parking on a single yellow line. That’s why I specifically looked for the time plate before leaving the vehicle. The only sign visible from where I was standing next to the car was the larger parking sign facing the carriageway, which states Monday–Saturday restrictions. There are no other signs facing the road.

The single yellow time plate was not visible from beside the vehicle without walking further along the carriageway. This is a relatively busy road where vehicles regularly travel at  30mph (or more), there is no proper pavement at that point, and the ground was wet and muddy due to recent heavy rain. It would not have felt safe or reasonable to walk along the edge of the carriageway searching for a sign when I had already checked the only one clearly facing the road.

I understand the principle that if you park on a yellow line you must check the restriction. That is exactly what I attempted to do. My argument isn’t that I failed to look, it’s that the relevant sign is not positioned in a way that adequately conveys the restriction to motorists parking lawfully and checking signage from their vehicle.

It only applies to that specific single yellow section (it becomes double yellow at the corner), so I cannot see why the time plate would need to be angled away from the carriageway. If properly oriented, it would be directly visible to drivers parking there.

My concern is whether a sign that is rotated away from the road satisfies the requirement that restrictions be clearly and adequately conveyed.

Any further thoughts appreciated.

6
Thanks for the reply. Here is the GSV link to the location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/xSxijRq4McojfFgp9

However, the Street View I am being shown appears to be from 2016. You can see the current view, as it was when I parked there, here: https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#frGG3xf

The key issue is that the single yellow line time plate is oriented away from the carriageway and was not visible from where I parked, particularly at night. The only clearly visible sign facing the road indicated Monday–Saturday restrictions, which is what led me to believe Sunday was unrestricted.

From what you’re saying, because it’s a hire vehicle, I may not even get the opportunity to take it to tribunal unless liability is transferred to me. That seems extremely unfair, especially if the signage itself is defective.

I suppose my only immediate option is to submit an informal challenge to the council and see whether they exercise discretion.

The whole situation feels very unfair, particularly where signage is not properly positioned yet enforcement is still taking place.

Any further thoughts appreciated.

7
Thanks for your detailed reply,  I really appreciate you taking the time.

My main concern here is that it is not right for vehicles to be fined in this location given the positioning of the sign. The single yellow line time plate is rotated away from the carriageway. From where I parked (at night), the only clearly visible sign was the pay-and-display sign facing the road, which states Monday–Saturday restrictions. The yellow line plate was not visible from that position.

I understand that yellow lines can have different hours from bays, but in this case the issue isn’t the difference in restriction — it’s that the relevant sign is not properly oriented. It appears misaligned to the extent that it does not adequately convey the restriction. I honestly struggle to understand how enforcement at that location can be considered fair if the sign is facing away from the line.

I had thought that Brent would likely reject an initial appeal and that it might need to go to the tribunal stage. My hope would be that an adjudicator would take the view that the restriction was not adequately signed due to the positioning of the time plate.

If it did go that far and the tribunal found in my favour on the basis that the contravention did not occur (due to inadequate signage), would that decision normally be strong enough to challenge Europcar’s £50 admin fee? If their terms are that they only refund it if the council confirms the PCN should never have been issued, which seems like an unusual requirement. If a tribunal allows the appeal, is that generally considered equivalent to the PCN being invalid from the outset?

Given Brent’s £80 discount and the £50 admin fee risk, I’m trying to balance the principle with the figures,  but at the same time, the signage genuinely appears defective.

Any thoughts appreciated.

8
PS: It is a Europcar rental car while our car is being repaired - I contacted Europcar and they said to also email any appeal details to them as well as the council.

10
Hello,

I need advice on appealing a PCN I received on Sunday 15th February at 8:49 AM for parking on a single yellow line.
I have been a resident in this area for 9 years and hold a valid resident permit. The evening before the PCN, I returned home after dark and all resident bays were full, so I parked on a single yellow line. The nearest clearly visible sign was for an adjacent pay-and-display bay and stated restrictions Monday–Saturday, so I reasonably believed Sunday parking was allowed.

When I discovered the PCN the next morning, I walked around the area and found a sign indicating the restriction—but it is facing away from the road I had parked on. There were no other signs visible from my position, and the road is quite busy with vehicles traveling at around 30mph, so it is unsafe to exit the car and inspect signage. I have photos taken at night showing the visibility issue.

I understand that under Regulations, signs must clearly inform drivers of restrictions. I believe this PCN was unfair due to inadequate and poorly oriented signage and the inability to reasonably know about Sunday restrictions.

In this case, the combination of:
  • the clearly visible nearby sign indicating Monday–Saturday restrictions
  • the absence of visible signage facing the location where the vehicle was parked
  • the orientation of the relevant sign facing away from the location
  • the risk posed by the road’s speed and traffic density

Location: Honeypot Lane (near junction with Westmoreland Road)
Google Street view link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/xSxijRq4McojfFgp9

My question: what is the best way to frame an appeal? Should I focus on signage visibility, safety concerns, or both? Any guidance on evidence or precedents that strengthen this type of appeal would be very helpful.

Thank you for your advice.
Jon







11
Thank you for your very helpful input Incandescent — this has been invaluable in strengthening my appeal.

I’ve now revised Point 8 (Legal Precedent) to include the case reference you provided (ETA 2240411930, Ramesh Panchani v. London Borough of Harrow). I’d really appreciate it if you could take a quick look and let me know if I’ve cited it correctly or if there’s anything I should refine further.

I’ll paste the updated section below — any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again for your help.

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8. Legal Precedent - Unclear Signage May Render a PCN Unenforceable

There have been past cases where PCNs were cancelled due to unclear, obstructed, or insufficiently visible signage.  Drivers cannot be expected to comply with a restriction if the required signage is not adequately visible.  A recent case at this location ETA Register of Appeals Case Reference 2240411930 (Ramesh Panchani v. London Borough of Harrow, Decision Date: 29 Nov 2024, Adjudicator: Edward Houghton) resulted in a PCN cancellation due to the council's failure to prove the "No Right Turn" signs were adequately visible at the time of the alleged contravention.  The adjudicator noted that the council provided site photographs taken after the contravention date but failed to prove that the signage was positioned correctly at the time of the alleged contravention. The CCTV footage did not clearly show the No Right Turn sign, casting doubt on whether it was sufficiently visible to motorists at the time.

My case is very similar, as both my case and the cited appeal occurred at night, which significantly worsened visibility conditions. The lack of proper illumination further compounded the issue, making it unreasonable to expect compliance with the restriction. Additionally, my case presents further evidence that the built-in sign illumination was not working, a key factor that was not explicitly considered in the previous appeal but further undermines the signage adequacy at this location. Given this prior ruling and the similarities to my case, it is clear that the signage at this junction does not meet the legal standard required for enforcement.

I have been driving in London for 30 years and am a careful and experienced driver. Of course, anyone can claim this, but I have never previously received a PCN for a similar offence. This further reinforces that the signage at this junction was inadequate, as I would not have missed a properly visible restriction.

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12
Hi, I posted earlier about my PCN appeal regarding the poorly visible No Entry and No Right Turn signs in Harrow, but I haven’t had any replies yet. I’d appreciate any input, as I need to submit my appeal to London Tribunals by Monday.

To summarise the key issues:
   •   The signs were not illuminated despite having built-in lights.
   •   No advance warning from the direction I approached.
   •   Signs were positioned too high and at a poor angle for visibility.
   •   CCTV footage doesn’t show my initial stop and reversal, which highlights the lack of visibility.
   •   Council ignored my request for clarification and immediately rejected my enquiry as an appeal.
   •   TSRGD regulations suggest illumination was required due to the 30mph limit.

I’m finalising my appeal and want to ensure I’ve covered everything. Has anyone else successfully challenged a PCN for unclear signage like this junction or a similar location?

Any advice or feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

13
Can anyone help me with this?

I recently received a PCN for making a No Right Turn at Kenton Service Road in Harrow, and I believe the signage at this location is inadequate, particularly at night. I’d really appreciate any advice, especially if anyone else has had similar issues.

Key Issues:
* No Entry & No Right Turn Signs Not Properly Illuminated – The signs have built-in lights, but they were not working on the night of the PCN and also when I went back to check.
* No Advance Warning from My Approach – The council claims there is an advance warning sign, but it is only visible to drivers approaching from the opposite direction.
* Signs Are Mounted Too High & at a Bad Angle – The No Right Turn sign looks over 4 metres high to me, making it difficult to see, especially at night.
* Junction Layout Prevents Proper Reflection – Due to the angle of approach, headlights do not illuminate the signs effectively, meaning, if it is actually installed, retroreflective material is insufficient (they definitely did not look reflective to me in any case).
* TSRGD 2016 Requirements Not Met – Since there are no 20 mph restriction signs nearby, I take it this road is 30 mph, from what I understand TSRGD 2016 requires signs within 50m of street lighting to be either illuminated or properly reflectorised. These signs did not meet that requirement.
* Harrow Council Rejected My Request for Clarification – I tried to call them for advice on sign illumination (on hold for over an hour, then cut off). When I emailed, they misinterpreted my message as an appeal and rejected it outright.

Due to this hasty rejection and my sense that this is PCN unreasonable, I have now drafted an appeal to the London Tribunals. I’ve included all relevant evidence and references in my draft appeal, which is attached below.

I also found a post on this forum from someone else who had the same issue at this location, even during daylight:

Page 1: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-50r-contravention-prohibited-right-turn-did-not-see-sign/

Page 2: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/hounslow-pcn-622/?prev_next=prev#new

(Putting links for both pages in as I had some issues with the previous / next page links going to a different thread)

Any advice on how to strengthen my case would be greatly appreciated. All evidence is attached below. Thanks!

Google Street View (PLEASE NOTE: it looks very different at night - see my photos attached)

https://maps.app.goo.gl/sfd9dBguVqcgTU4x7


PCN Details:



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