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Messages - big_p

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: March 30, 2025, 12:17:36 pm »
Thank you,

Do you have any guidance on how to identify and contact a court?

This feels quite serious, and I'm wondering if it's still worth it as I feel a little worried that it won't pay off.

Is this all standard procedure? It's all new to me. Thanks.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: March 30, 2025, 09:20:21 am »
Hello H,

We have just received the next letter. Please may you advise what we do now?

Thank you very much in advance.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: February 23, 2025, 02:32:31 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on February 23, 2025, 09:48:21 am
Enforcement process:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process

Wait for the Order for Recovery and then we will advise which box to tick and sign in front of a witness.



Thank you H.

I have just checked the link and I can see that I should receive the Order For Recovery in a couple of weeks.

And that I should be able to reply to that by checking the box marked:

"You made representations to the Enforcement Authority concerned but did not receive a Notice of Rejection from that authority; or"


When I receive the Order For Recovery I shall come back to this thread for your excellent advice.

Is there any worries at this stage that the fine will continue to snowball, and I may be taken to court? Should I be concerned and therefore just pay the £190?

Cheers again

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: February 22, 2025, 03:08:30 pm »
cont.

final 2 images below:

5. Their letter to me dated 20th Feb
6. Lewisham PCN portal checked 22nd feb (post reps)

There has been no correspondence [at least none that I can find] between Jan 13th (the date I sent rep) and Feb 20th.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: February 22, 2025, 03:06:31 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on February 22, 2025, 02:37:50 pm
PM received. You made reps. so wait for the Order for Recovery.

Thanks, H

What is Order For Recovery?

I have attached all images below (and on the next post due to the attachment limit) so they're in one place:

1. Initial PCN
2. Screenshot of Lewisham PCN portal pre-repts
3. Reps letter
4. Their receipt of my reps



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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: February 22, 2025, 01:58:49 pm »
Hi, me again.

Since the representation that Hippocrates helped me write, I heard nothing until the 20th Feb.

On the letter (see image attached) it says they replied to my representation on Jan 14th but they hadn't. There is not evidence of any email reply, nor a letter in the post.

The web portal also now says due to me not responding to their reply to the representation, they have doubled the fine and are disallowing further correspondence.

Do I have any power here? It feels unfair to demand I pay double the amount when I hadn't see their reply to my representation.

It appears that there is now no long any option to contact them, and they've set a deadline of 14 days so I have no idea what to do.

I welcome all and any advice.



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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: January 13, 2025, 05:11:38 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on January 13, 2025, 09:08:19 am
@big_p

Dear Lewisham

Ref: PCN            RM

I make this collateral representation as follows:

The Penalty Charge Notice

On several occasions it describes itself as acting as a Notice to Owner, or Penalty Charge Notice/Notice to Owner and contains a whole section pertaining to Parking Legislation which should not be there. It is averred that, if it acts as a Notice to Owner, then it should contain the necessary grounds, which are absent.

Furthermore, it fails to mention payment by post option which it must. I rely upon case no 2200527816.

Your website

This currently contains an intimidatory demand for money which flies in the face of the statutory process, whether it creates prejudice or not. Furthermore, the date is wrong as per the attached screenshot.

https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4526.0;attach=10253;image

In this regard I refer you to the following decision: 2240362722.

In light of the above, please cancel the PCN.

Thanks so much H!

Can I submit this on the website, or need I write it and send it via mail?

If I do it via the website, I'm not given too many options - do you have any submission advice?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: January 09, 2025, 10:10:33 am »
Quote from: big_p on January 08, 2025, 11:33:56 am
Hey Hippocrates,

I don't suppose you found anything in the screenshot that could be useful?

Cheers!

Hey Hippocrates - I don't suppose you had a chance to draft something?

Just have one eye on the penalty doubling, which I can't let happen!

I really appreciate any help you can provide.
Asa

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: January 08, 2025, 01:11:09 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on January 08, 2025, 01:06:13 pm
1. It is a threat.

2. The date is wrong. The price increases on the 15th day from 24th which is 6th January.  I will draft reps later but they will be technical.

I won a case v Lambeth on exactly this issue some months ago.

You hero, thank you so much.

I hadn't noticed the discrepancy in the date, and I'm unaware of the 'threat' appeal. Thank goodness for this forum and for folks like you who offer free advice.

I shall await your draft.

Thanks again.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: January 08, 2025, 11:33:56 am »
Hey Hippocrates,

I don't suppose you found anything in the screenshot that could be useful?

Cheers!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: January 06, 2025, 12:39:26 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on January 06, 2025, 12:27:52 pm
Please screenshot the website payment page and report back.

Hi Hippocrates,

See attached - anything noteworthy?

Thanks in advance.



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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: January 06, 2025, 10:37:26 am »
Quote from: Incandescent on January 06, 2025, 10:24:05 am
In addition to the two signs that faced you head-on, is an advance warning sign : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7bGxuZCFLuPNDNci7

There is also an advance warning sign on Ardgowan Road : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Bo58EwB7MG5xVLmr9

So as far as I can see, the council have discharged their duties under LATOR Regulation 8

Anything you can think of that might have distracted you from seeing the signs ?

There may be a 'technical' appeal based on possible council mismanagement of the enforcement process, or content errors in the PCN.



You're right - these signs I didn't see on the day, but I suspect my reasons for distraction aren't grounds for a representation as they are subjective, emotional reasons: I was dropping off my mum at the station, to get to Gatwick, to fly to the States over Xmas to visit a dying friend for the last time.

This meant the drive was a particularly emotional one as it meant the family was broken up for xmas and my mum was embarking on a very upsetting journey.

As difficult, and distracting, as this was it shouldn't really have impaired my ability to check for road signs. while I have no evidence, I doubt the arbiter would accept this sort of appeal.

What sorts of technical appeals might be plausible? Do you have any examples that might prompt my investigation into that?

Thanks for all your help with this.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: January 06, 2025, 10:03:06 am »
Quote from: Incandescent on January 05, 2025, 04:55:19 pm
Quote
I simply put East Croydon in Google maps and followed the route.
It is absolutely fatal to use satnav in London on its own and not look out for signs, they are almost always out-of-date, and some may not even handle restrictions like this. Even driving your route virtually the night before using GSV may not turn up all the restrictions.

Quote
(note: The PCN was served to my mum, not me, but I was the driver.)
Who was driving is irrelevant, the owner of the vehicle has responsibility for all PCNs. So your mother must either submit representations herself, or authorise you to do so. If the case is lost the owner must pay the PCN.

Please also post a GSV link to the exact location


Thanks for your reply, I appreciate your comments.

The GSV location is here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fvzpY1eyGStwyKFz6

Is that helpful?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Lewisham, PCN: 53j - Entering (timed) pedestrian zone, Hazelbank Road
« on: January 05, 2025, 02:59:42 pm »
Hello folks, could I please get assistance with the below? I can see that a few of us have been stung with it on this forum.

Essentially, a portion of road outside a school becomes a pedestrian zone between certain times

Not knowing this, I drove my mum (in her car) to East Croydon train station so she could get to Gatwick and catch a flight. I simply put East Croydon in Google maps and followed the route. (note: The PCN was served to my mum, not me, but I was the driver.)

I have seen others in this forum make a representation simply saying the contravention didn't occur, which I was about to do, but then a message on the webhub made me think twice: "I confirm that the above information is correct to the best of my knowledge. I understand that making a false statement may result in prosecution and a possible fine of up to £5000."

I can see another example where somebody made a representation of the grounds that the sign was difficult to read but that didn't fly.

Do you know of grounds for avoiding this charge, or do I have to pay the 65?

Thanks in advance.

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