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Messages - cupotea

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1
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Southwark, code 62, parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath, redcross way, SE1
« on: January 05, 2026, 09:18:50 pm »
Hi. I suspect I am probably liable, but this is something many people do routinely on this estate so I wanted to sense-check before deciding how to proceed.

My partner lives in a small ex-local authority block (third floor, no lift). There were no spaces available in the residents’ car park, and I am not eligible for a permit in any case. I had heavy shopping to drop off and was also collecting my daughter.

I parked on the wide tarmac area directly outside the main entrance. The area is wide enough for vehicles and delivery vans, appears designed for servicing the building, and I left sufficient space for pedestrians to pass safely. I was away only briefly but returned to find a PCN. The vehicle was locked and unattended.

Photos are attached and I have marked the vehicle position in purple on the images below.

Do I have any viable grounds to challenge this, or is it simply a case of making informal representations along the lines above and seeing whether the council exercises any discretion?

Thanks as always.








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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Enfield, code 11 parked without payment of parking charge, N18
« on: November 06, 2025, 10:57:20 am »
Hi, no I didn't, I saw the attendant walking away from the car when I was walking back and didn't see the point as he'd already issued it and I wasn't staying for long. I'll just have to contest and see what happens but not expecting much, as you say it was legit just seems overly harsh they can do that with no observation period when the only way to do it is by phone.




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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Enfield, code 11 parked without payment of parking charge, N18
« on: November 05, 2025, 10:54:12 pm »
Good evening,

I received the below PCN yesterday outside North Middlesex Hospital. There were no spaces in the hospital car park and a queue of cars waiting, so I dropped my son off at A&E reception (we were visiting my dad), exited the car park and turned left onto Bridport Road.

The only payment options on Bridport Road are by phone (text, app or call). My son had my phone with him, so I went to retrieve it and was gone only a few minutes. By the time I returned, a PCN had already been issued. The observation period is just one minute (15:39–15:40), and the photos of the car are timestamped 15:42 with the ticket already on the windscreen.

I find it unreasonable that a motorist using a mobile-only payment system is given no more than a minute to make payment, particularly where there is no alternative method available.

I intend to contest the PCN, but in your experience is this worth pursuing, or do councils usually stick rigidly to the letter of the rules in cases like this?





Pic of distance from parked car to A&E reception


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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: September 09, 2025, 02:57:24 pm »
Just a quick update on this one. I received a response today - the ticket has been cancelled, a rarity in my experience for Southwark - would be good to know why they did though:

PCN Challenge Review - Traffic Management Act 2004 (Part 6)

We refer to the informal challenge you have made against the issue of the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) JK16709240
We have examined the facts surrounding the issue of this PCN and taking into consideration the contents in your
correspondence, we have decided to cancel your PCN.
Please be advised, the PCN was cancelled for reasons other than those provided in your challenge letter, and should not be
taken as a precedent. This cancellation has no bearing on the validity of any other PCNs that may be issued to you in future
under similar circumstances.
Each of the examples provided in your letter relate to stopping and escorting vulnerable passengers; and the PCNs were
issued where waiting and loading restrictions apply.
Whilst the traffic management order permits vehicles to stop for the purpose of enabling persons to board or alight a vehicle,
no such exemption applies to vehicles parked in paid-for parking bays, including those designated for permit holder parking.
In this instance, as the PCN has been cancelled, no further action will be taken.

5
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: July 16, 2025, 02:21:20 pm »
@stamfordman – No worries at all. I wasn’t intending to be confrontational — just trying to avoid having to take it to tribunal if possible. I included the examples not to explain what assisted alighting is (I’m sure they know), but to show that even cases with longer durations have been overturned. I thought if I didn’t include any context, they’d just default to “5 mins is plenty, rejected” and move on.

@H C Anderson – Apologies, I misunderstood your earlier comment. I thought you were saying it was a “her word against his” situation and not worth pursuing from that angle — as I know you usually keep things strictly within the regs. To clarify: she didn’t speak to the CEO — by the time we returned, the PCN was already on the car and he was walking away. I’ve spoken to CEOs in the past and they’ve always just said “you’ll need to appeal and they will cancel it”, which obviously isn’t a guarantee of anything.

Will update once I hear back — appreciate all the input as always.

6
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: July 16, 2025, 10:55:17 am »
FYI I submitted the following:

I am challenging PCN JK16709240 on the basis that the vehicle was parked solely for assisted alighting.

My daughter, aged 9 (year 4), attends Cathedral School on Redcross Way. On this occasion, we were running late and unable to find a space in the C1 zone (for which we hold a valid permit). This was not our usual routine — we normally walk — but I needed to accompany her safely to the school gate.

Redcross Way is a narrow one-way street, so stopping in the road was not viable. The C2 bay was the closest safe option, and the vehicle was moved immediately after I returned.

This falls under the accepted exemption for assisted alighting, especially involving young children, and has been upheld in similar tribunal cases, including:

Roy Gould v Shepway District Council (SH 05045K, 24 February 2008) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FLhLGP1wFnqPTGDJek3GKXuAUClSxU7i/view
Wajid Khan v London Borough of Waltham Forest (2160230738, 30 June 2016) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t3IPfXcxF0FkUHrS2N6KDkzrElZ4SVU3/view
Nasima Begum v London Borough of Redbridge (2220685150, 2 November 2022) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QkJe3v7ZdTObVDGKXdk9V-jEvx3xO8uj/view
Asim Bhuta v London Borough of Newham (2220099690, 22 March 2022) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZduk-P1Dujhkgcma1wYsU2rarGkkx2w/view
Nabil Rohman v City of Westminster (2230560708, 10 February 2024) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sNMXTXDU79DbHX41ugCoA9Ei844QtvhY/view
Noor Ali v London Borough of Tower Hamlets (2230556595, 23 March 2024) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l_Jl23NgxEmRdVvG63KB1LPSBcXLJf5z/view

I would ask that you cancel the PCN at this stage to avoid unnecessary escalation.

==================

I'll update once I receive a response, thanks.

7
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: July 16, 2025, 08:37:30 am »
Morning, my 2 week discount period ends today so I'll look to submit my response soon before I forget. I can just amend my original response with your suggestions, thanks.

8
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: July 10, 2025, 05:00:55 pm »
Normally we just walk, but she needed the car and so was going straight on from the drop off.

I was adding the examples in the hope of avoiding this just being rejected and having to take it further - under what's probably a naive view that if they can see other examples where this was overturned at tribunal they would save themselves the bother of taking this further and let this one slide.

Not sure on the argument re code 19 - it just states that I parked in a residents' bay with an invalid virtual ticket. I assume when they checked my reg it would've come up that mine was a C1 permit and I was in a C2 bay so they issued the ticket accordingly and with a discount. Had I not had a C1 permit then it would have presumbably been a different code and a larger fine.

9
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: July 10, 2025, 04:25:46 pm »
Draft below, tried to keep it brief, have included examples that were provided to me in the past and the links. I understand why it was issued and it's not the CEO's fault, I would just appreciate if Southwark would cancel if possible and not to have to go down the tribunal route. It's worth a try while they will still allow the discount at least:


I’m challenging PCN JK16709240  on the basis of the assisted alighting exemption.

I parked briefly in a C2 bay on Sanctuary Street to help my 9-year-old daughter, who attends Cathedral School, out of the car and walk her to the gate. We have a C1 permit but no C1 bays were available at the time, and stopping in Redcross Way would have blocked this narrow one-way street.
I was away from the car for under 10 minutes, solely to assist her. I returned as the PCN was being issued and moved the vehicle immediately.
This falls under the accepted exemption for assisted alighting, especially involving young children, and has been upheld in similar tribunal cases, including:

Roy Gould v Shepway District Council (SH 05045K, 24 February 2008) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FLhLGP1wFnqPTGDJek3GKXuAUClSxU7i/view
Wajid Khan v London Borough of Waltham Forest (2160230738, 30 June 2016) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t3IPfXcxF0FkUHrS2N6KDkzrElZ4SVU3/view
Nasima Begum v London Borough of Redbridge (2220685150, 2 November 2022) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QkJe3v7ZdTObVDGKXdk9V-jEvx3xO8uj/view
Asim Bhuta v London Borough of Newham (2220099690, 22 March 2022) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZduk-P1Dujhkgcma1wYsU2rarGkkx2w/view
Nabil Rohman v City of Westminster (2230560708, 10 February 2024) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sNMXTXDU79DbHX41ugCoA9Ei844QtvhY/view
Noor Ali v London Borough of Tower Hamlets (2230556595, 23 March 2024) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l_Jl23NgxEmRdVvG63KB1LPSBcXLJf5z/view

I ask that the PCN be cancelled on this basis.

10
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: July 10, 2025, 02:55:26 pm »
Unfortunately not, most of the roads are narrow and 1 way around that area. There weren't any C1 bays spare etc. At the time that was pretty much as close as she could get without blocking traffic. I'll try the appeal and see what happens, thanks.

11
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: July 10, 2025, 02:05:20 pm »
Hi,

Is it worth submitting a challenge to the pcn on the grounds of assisted drop off? I am sure they will reject it and no point taking it to tribunal if there's only a slim chance of success.

Thanks.

12
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: July 08, 2025, 09:07:51 pm »
Hi,

Thanks for the quick response. My daughter is 9, year 4, and the drop off point is 4mins/.2miles roughly each way, it's about a close as you can get in a bay.

Thanks, Tony

13
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Southwark, 19, Parked in residents' bay
« on: July 08, 2025, 08:35:42 pm »
Good evening. My missus received the below ticket when dropping our daughter off at school last week. She wouldn't drive ordinarily but needed the car and couldn't get a spot in our usual bays. The school is between 2 parking zones, C1 at one end, for which we have a permit, and C2 at the other which was the only available space at the time. The time between observations was 5 mins, school starts at 08:45 and she got back just as he had given the ticket. I had similar last year (with a different code) when dropping my daughter off at swimming and was advised by H C Anderson this should be covered by a "blanket waiting restriction" - Southwark did reject this argument, and everything else, until it went to tribunal but it was eventually overturned because the ticket itself was incorrect so I wasn't able to test if the waiting restriction itself was valid in their eyes. Is this argument still valid with this type of ticket in a marked bay? If so, I know Southwark do tend to just reject regardless but could you advise on how best to word my response in the hope they won't take this all the way to tribunal?

Thanks!




14
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, code 51j, failing to comply with a no entry restriction, union street/redcross way, SE1
« on: June 02, 2025, 11:18:12 am »
Morning,

I've received the rejection in the post this morning and re-read it (the same one I posted on here earlier, I haven't sent anything to the tribunal as yet). They rejected because, "...our camera evidence shows your vehicle disobeying a 'no-entry' sign... The CCTV footage shows the vehicle stationary before the restriction then reversing past the no entry signs and road markings..."


On Google Maps back in March 2017 there was a lamp post parallel with the current one and both had 'no-entry' signs on them:



By Sept 2017 one lamp post had been removed (ahead of the dedicated cycle path being installed) and the 'no-entry' sign removed from the remaining post:




The 'no-entry' signs reappeared at some point since last summer (the last time on maps you can see they're missing). The NO ENTRY roadmarking is set well back from the posts and so shouldn't be used as a guide.  I've marked up the current overhead view in the snip below:

- The red dots are the posts the current 'no-entry' signs are fixed to - the original lamp post (on the left as you drive) and a post which is set back from Union Street and belongs to Redcross Way. They're not in line with each other and are well ahead of the NO ENTRY road marking.
- The green rectangle is the spot I reversed in to.
- The purple dot is the post where the camera was fixed and the purple lines are its lines of sight. As per the video evidence they provided the camera is unable to see either sign post, the view is blocked by a tree on the left and a house on the right

As such, I don't think they have any evidence that my car actually reversed past these signs:



I just wanted to provide this in case it helps, thanks.

15
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Southwark, code 51j, failing to comply with a no entry restriction, union street/redcross way, SE1
« on: May 22, 2025, 11:27:46 am »
Hello again. I've had the expected rejection from Southwark. Any suggestions - assume I stick to my guns? Does seem unfair, looks like they've now moved that camera to another spot.

Here is the rejection:





And something else I noticed. The no entry signs are new(ish), however for the RH side no-entry sign (nearside to the driver) they have used the existing post which is meant for Redcross Way, it's not on Union Street. The post now looks like this:



Although you can see both in this photo it is clearly in the other street:



Also measurement A is approx 2.1m from the pavement (so below the 2.15m it should be), and B is over 3m, possibly closer to 4m from the roadside itself so surely this signpost isn't valid? Although there is still the road marking (which I had driven over the wrong direction) and the other signpost which appears to be valid but would've been hard to see if i'm reversing. I don't even think my car was fully past either post, only the road marking - does that make a difference?

Thanks for any help with a response on this one.

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