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Messages - stjohn

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Speeding in extension of 20mph zone - inadequate signage?
« on: December 14, 2024, 05:28:07 pm »
Quote from: andy_foster on December 14, 2024, 04:28:46 pm
Is it a 20mph zone (with traffic "calming" measures) or a 20mph limit (with signage)?

Thanks for clarifying, it was a limit (signage only) so have edited my original post.

I must've assumed that I'd just passed the sign without consciously noticing it but knew that (previously, at least) the speed camera was to check the 30mph limit (I wasn't doing 30 mph in the 20 mph limit).

I'll check the traffic regulation order - thanks.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Speeding in extension of 20mph limit - inadequate signage?
« on: December 14, 2024, 02:41:54 pm »
I was clocked doing 30mph in a recently extended 20mph limit by a fixed speed camera and have been offered the chance to attend a course.

The change of signage has been to remove the two larger '30' end of limit signs either side of the road (See Streetview #1) and to replace them with a single small '20' repeater on the far side of the road (See Streetview #2). There are no signs drawing attention to the change of speed limit/extension of the 20mph limit (see New Speed Limit in Force sign image below) and only one further small 20 repeater before the speed camera, which is again on the far side of the road (See Streetview #3).

Streetview 1 - old signage prior to 20mph extension: https://maps.app.goo.gl/vhU3eJZoFDXNfwBBA
Streetview 2 - new signage post 20mph extension: https://maps.app.goo.gl/SvLxeW9R3iMtPoPB8
Streetview 3 - new signage beyond previous end of 20mph, 2nd and last new 20 repeater before camera: https://maps.app.goo.gl/whhcWR2BzuNCL4Q37
New Speed Limit in Force sign example: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65e724cd2f2b3be8b07cd7ff/new-30-mph.svg

Prior to the extension of the 20mph limit, the camera sat about 130m beyond the end of the 20mph (which takes about 10 seconds to drive at 30mph, so not long to spot a reduction in speed limit without obvious signage) and used to be set to catch those exceeding the 30mph speed limit. I have lived in the neighbourhood for over a decade and the camera speed limit has been 30mph for as long as I can remember.

I was caught doing 30mph through the camera at 10pm at night; I had no clue that the speed limit had changed until the camera flashed for the car in front of me and then again for me. Due to (a) the darkness and lack of illumination of new '20' signs, (b) their small size, (c) their position on the far side of the road and angled parallel to the road (rather than angled towards the driver's view) and (d) no signage highlighting the change of speed limit such as 'New Speed Limit in Force' (although I understand this is not compulsory), I had absolutely no awareness of the speed limit change, hence my speed being measured at 30mph.

Judging by local facebook group discussions, a number of people have also been caught out by the same issue (although including at daytime!)

I've only just discovered this forum and have to choose whether to accept the course by end of Monday so any quick advice would be appreciated, particularly if anyone has a view as to how successful an appeal would be at a magistrates' court hearing. It just seems unjust that so much money should be paid out by the public due to what I truly believe is inadequate signage.

Thanks in advance for your help!

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