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Messages - David729

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1
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 09, 2024, 10:25:31 pm »
Sorry to be pedantic but in the abscence of any dashcam footage, it would be his word, against mine?
In the SAR response, they claim there’s no footage. 
Alternatively, if the Police thought this case was serious or would end up in court, wouldn't they have saved it?
Or shouldn't they save all such stops? Or at least store them for 6-12 months?
Is it routine, to delete them? The place I work keeps records for 20 years!

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 09, 2024, 09:13:38 pm »
Thanks
Your trial will not be held under the Single Justice Procedure. That is only for straightforward guilty pleas. You will face a trial before three Magistrates or possibly (but less likely) a District Judge sitting alone. It will be governed by all the procedural rules which all criminal courts are subject to and will probably take at least an hour
— So I take an oath and sit in the dock? Be cross examined by the Prosecution?
What would the evidence be? The Officer’s statement? They say there is no dash cam footage but I do recollect drivers driving v differently. Some faster than me (50 plus) some slower
So technically, there would be others too? Breaking the speed limit or driving with due care? I don't wish anyone else gets in trouble  but how are these cases proven in court?
As you said it would go on for an hour?

- The transformation was based on the advise and hope, given to me by a no nonsense Solicitor who is highly regarded on this forum

Sorry, I’m no Scrooge but have been saving for the worst case scenario.
Plus it’s Xmas and still
not done shopping for my
Wife and kids.
So was hoping to save a few bob and draft the letter to the CPS
Or else the quote for that job was something like 450 plus vat.

Been a painful last 4 months, Hope the New year is better 🤞

3
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 09, 2024, 07:07:13 pm »
Thanks for all the replies; much appreciated. Helps to get a broader view

How do I go about disputing the police officer's version? Or vice versa
The episode took place a long time ago, and there's no dashcam or any video footage. As per SAR response.
So wouldn't it be his word versus mine?


Secondly, I don't think the police have given much thought or spent a lot of time looking into my case to see if the prosecution is the right thing here.
 The case has reached here more due to a series of events or mishaps, like a pilot falling asleep and carried on via autopilot.
I received the police offer for 100 quid/3 points or course. Which I took, paid online, but forgot the license details. The second reminder got lost in the junk mail, which my wife put away in a drawer. Only to be found after the expiry date!
Then the SJP fiasco, where I thought I was being honest and presenting the 'real case' scenario. Ended up more like Vicky Pollard 'No but yeah, but no but yeah'

Again, correct me, the SJP outcomes are not decided by the police. It's a single magistrate or three of them, who are supported by a legal advisor. There calls to revamp this system, as some claim to get less than 2 minutes to go through one case. Tonnes of videos of these are on YouTube.
A magistrate has deemed that the case is not suitable through the SJP and needs to go to trial.

Don't see the police doing much up to now? TBH, they have been polite and given me loads of chances, which didn't go through.

So my last hope is to write to the CPS. Asking them to kindly have a look? May be even see if they are willing to drop the case if I pay the fine and take points?

4
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 09, 2024, 05:46:52 pm »
Thanks
I thought I could base my request to the CPS on the following points:

1) The police version of events can be questioned, and I feel it has been exaggerated. There seems to be a lack of knowledge in the highway code too.
I was careful rather than careless and didn’t act inconsiderably to other drivers, except those who were driving too fast for the conditions.
I also wish to say that the Police officer is exaggerating about there being traffic congestion as it was midnight and the traffic was light
---------------------------------
I would quote the following rules from the Highway Code. Which deal with driving at night and driving in wet weather
Rule 125
The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions.
Driving at speeds to fast for the road and traffic conditions is dangerous.
You should always reduce your speed when
 -Weather conditions make it safer to do so
- driving at night as it is more difficult to see other road users

Rule 227
In wet weather, stopping distances will be at least double those required for dry roads
( 2 seconds vs 4 seconds)
The rain and spray from vehicles may make it difficult to see and be seen



I have been charged under section 3 of the RTA 1988 and schedule  2 of the RTOA 1988
Under section 3, careless  and inconsiderate driving is defined as


Section 3  of the Road traffic Act 1988:


Careless and inconsiderate driving
Definition
If a person drives without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for the other person using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence

Meaning of careless or inconsiderate driving

Careless: The way he drives falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver
In determining for purpose of subsection (2) above what would be expected of a careful and competent driver in a particular case, regard shall be had not only to the circumstances of which he would be expected  to be aware but also to any circumstances shown to have been within the knowledge of the accused

Inconsiderate: Only if others are inconvenienced by his driving

--

Reasons for asking the CPS to drop a case

1.   How serious is the offence committed?
2.   How culpable is the suspect?
3.   What is the impact on the community?
4.   Is the prosecution proportionate to the offence?

Factors such as the minor nature of the offence,
 lack of harm to the public, or alternative ways of addressing the matter can be raised to support this argument.

=====
The above is something I picked up from google YouTube, and various other searches on the net








5
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 09, 2024, 02:52:20 pm »
Thanks, that was helpful
Actually, the officer’s report is just like 5-6 lines, nothing spectacular

Actually, you have more or less described it tbh
- ‘So you’re in narrow lanes in poor weather, with an HGV adjacent, and you try to overtake it. That may well be why the officer believed your driving had fallen below he required standard’

This more or less sums it up. I am claustrophobic and the huge lorry on one side and the barriers on the other side didn't help.
Plus the constant spray on my windscreen, from the lorry’s wheels,nearly blinded me.


Strangely, the officer who stopped me, claimed I was rubbing my head with my hand. Which he thought was a sign of fatigue or? Being drunk
(not written in his report) I don't drink or take drugs, except tea

Mitigation, I agree in hindsight,  was an unmitigated disaster.
I said sorry, apologised, pleaded guilty and then wrote the exact scenario I was in, along with some quotes from the highway code. About driving in bad weather and poor visibility. So that’s the most likely cause of the sjp rejection.

Going forwards, what is done is done. Can’t change it, sorry
The not guilty plea has been accepted and have been given a date in Feb 2025. The Solicitor had quotes 2 grand for all of this, including potential 1-2 hearings

My one hope is to write to the CPS, asking them to drop the case. As there’s no public interest in prosecuting me. It reached this stage due to a series of unfortunate events and if you actually quote the highway code and RTA sect 3 then I do have a leg to stand on.
Besides, I got the historical weather forecasts for that day. Which would back me up.

Lastly, I feel the officer was slightly exaggerating. By claiming it led to congestion,when it was
midnight, traffic was thin and the roadworks didn't help.
Tried to obtain the dash cam footage, through an SAR but the response
waa that none exists.
So how does the officer or I put forward the case? I presume he too would be needed in court?
Isn't it all a waste of time and resources

David
 

6
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 09, 2024, 11:44:18 am »
Thought I could do that bit myself, with help from this forum
It’s already costing me an arm and a leg and it’s Xmas too
Attending court would cost me around 2 grand

7
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 09, 2024, 10:40:31 am »
Thanks, that attachment was v helpful
Has anyone written to the CPS in the past? Any advise on how to go about?

8
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 09, 2024, 09:22:03 am »
Good morning

Please find part of the
discussion I had with my Solicitor, cut and pasted below


‘This isn’t how these cases work. You have not yet entered a guilty plea because the court has not accepted your guilty plea. The next hearing would be dealt with via letter confirming a not guilty plea (neither you nor I would attend)

Morning, the hearing on the 19th is because the court has decided your case is not suitable for the Single Justice Procedure (I’m not sure why they have done this). On the 19th we have the option to plead guilty or not guilty (without attending - even though the summons says you should attend). On the 19th the case will either be listed for trial or it will be adjourned for a case management hearing. We would deal with the case management hearing via letter.
Between the 19th and the trial date I would be working to persuade the prosecution to drop the case on public interest grounds.

If we haven’t managed to get them to drop the case by the trial date then we would attend the trial and argue that the offence is not made out.

9
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 08, 2024, 08:46:31 pm »
Thanks, Andy
I intend to write to the CPS. Requesting them to drop the case as it serves no public cause.
Any advise or thoughts about the same would be much appreciated

Dave

10
Speeding and other criminal offences / Worth writing to the CPS?
« on: December 08, 2024, 07:32:48 pm »
Hello there,

All set for Xmas?
Hope I can get some advice on my predicament.
Roughly a year ago, on a dark, rainy night was driving the M1 near Leicester. When the road works sign appeared with a speed limit of 50. The lanes abruptly narrowed to two and a huge lorry cut across me. I flashed my high beam and tried overtaking it. To avoid the lorry's spray which covered my windscreen. I also felt anxious, with two narrow lanes and a monster of a lorry nearly touching my side mirror.
 
A few miles down the road the car following me put on its Police lights, overtook me and flashed that dreaded sign 'Please follow' Was breathalysed and then sent on my way after I explained the situation. The cop claimed the lorry had to swerve and it caused a congestion on the M1,at around 11pm.

A week later, got the post, was charged with careless driving and took the 100-quid three-point point option. I thought I sent all the paperwork but it was a mess. Nothing got through, and then got an SJP. Which I pleaded guilty to and put the facts in my mitigating statement(huge mistake). Needless to say, got another letter that the case was not suitable for the SJP and got a date at the Magistrates court.

Contacted a traffic Solicitor, as I am now on 6 points and as a travelling salesman need the license or would come up as a totter. They advised me to enter a not-guilty plea, which was accepted and a date given in Feb 2025. The Solicitors also advised me to obtain footage, which I tried to do under the SAR. The response from the Traffic unit was that 'no dash cam footage was available'

What else could I write in my letter? Solicitors advise that it would take appearance in court would take at least 2 hours and the officer should ideally be present too. Isn't this all a waste of resources and time?
Please do give me your thoughts

Dave

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