Show Posts - Sg2024

Aah,, I did not know specific about the loading aspects of these rules. But now that I read online on TfL website, it becomes clear to me.. Sorry, this is really new for me. Never had this issues for over 10 years of driving in London!!Anyhow, would appreciate if there is a way I could fight off the ticket or if others think I can not, then I will pay-up without a challenge. Understand I was wrong completely inadvertently though and wouldn't repeat in future. Thanks again.

Loading a passenger and their luggage...

Happy New Year to all members.TfL sent me an absurd PCN as a new year post   . I would be grateful for your inputs / advice on the challenge. I have looked through this forum and more broadly for similar prior cases and couldn't locate a relevant precedent and hence posting this.+++++++ Alleged contravention for PCN:46: Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway)Contravention location: 1484-1494 LONDON ROAD SW16on 23/12/2025 at 10:22"The alleged contravention was seen and recorded by camera operator number 2|3 who was observing real time pictures from an approved device at the time sated and has been recorded on digital storage media"+++++++ My issues with the PCN:1) My car is parked in a parking bay on red route after 10am, where the parking restrictions stated: "No stopping Mon-Sat 7am-7pm / Except 10am-4pm, loading max 20 mins".2) PCN has 3 pictures (attached), with time stamp of 10:12:30 / 10:12:31 / 10:22:34. So gap of about 10 or so mins. This is well within the 20 mins restrictions. FYI, this parking is next to a station and I was waiting to pickup someone, thinking of 20 mins restrictions...+++++++ My questions/requests:1) Am I right to think that the PCN is without any merit (least based on the evidence provided)..2) Are they right to issue this PCN with a camera pictures?3) If I counter the PCN, could they produce more pictures to show I overstayed? I do believe I did not overstay, but incase I might, just wanted to know if something of this sort can occur? Would have presumed that they produce all relevant media with the PCN itself?4) Shall I simply raise the points about location and time stamps or are there any other grounds I can use?Many Thanks in advance!!https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CeaMHSOewn4Hy8vejzApdwTGZ7-m3tIv/view?usp=sharinghttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1V81P8o9tJC4NX0cxpCjnQvRZClpBy9lb/view?usp=sharinghttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1hjEuqbESsSSZX3hbbPfI1L6RTn8zEHtQ/view?usp=sharinghttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1f9AScKFE8-OHg4jWe0472Sv1dSjYwxyD/view?usp=sharinghttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1aV_OLJWT_DdpZT0GOBaj0Fg49HqF512l/view?usp=sharing

Dear members,I am so pleased to share that I received my correct/revised decision stating that my appeal has been upheld - Hurray !! Many Thanks for the advice and support - it is highly appreciated.For the benefit of other members in future, here is the reasoning.----At this scheduled personal hearing the Appellant attended in person but the Enforcement Authority did not attend and were not represented.A contravention can occur is a vehicle is stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand. The Penalty Charge Notice was issued under Regulation 10 of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022(the '2022 General Regulations') on the basis of a record produced by an approved device.A bus stop clearway or bus stand clearway is one of the circumstances referred to in Regulation 11(1)(b) of the 2022 General Regulations, as an exception to the requirement that a penalty charge notice may be served only by the fixing of a notice to the vehicle by a civil enforcement officer who has reason to believe that a penalty charge is payable with respect to it.There appears to be no dispute that the vehicle was stopped at this bus stop in Dulwich Road, as shown in the closed-circuit television (cctv) images produced by the Enforcement Authority.The Appellant says that he is aware that he cannot stop on the bus stop and drove to park into the parking bay adjoining it but immediately realised there was not enough space. The Appellant explains that as he was trying to move on, the flow of traffic prevented him from doing so immediately as there were two oncoming vehicles and a cyclist, so he had to wait to avoid an accident.I have had the opportunity of hearing the Appellant personally and accept what he tells me. The Adjudicator is only able to decide an appeal by making findings of fact on the basis of the evidence actually produced by the parties and applying relevant law. Considering all the evidence before me carefully I cannot find as a fact that, on this particular occasion, a contravention did occur.  Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.

Interesting. Sent an email as well for future documentation. Will post the group when I receive any further response / correspondence. Thanks a ton again !!

Thank you so v much. I am not keeping hopes high tbh. But quite disappointed with the process. I have called up the Tribunal as advised who mentioned that they have raised this with the case management and shall get back to me, perhaps in coming days.

Thanks again. He only countered me, and didnt give any specific reason.1) You were in the wrong lane not in the traffic > Yes, because I was looking to park ahead in the parking lane, where the car just parked and seemed like there would have been space, but it was a misjudgement on my part, but I tried to then manouver right and move on, but it was late, since there were incoming vehicles2) There was not enough space to park> Correct, but thats in hindsight. There was space, but the vehicle ahead of me parked just before of me when I was driving towards it, and it would have been visible if only the council provided the video just before where it starts.3) You had the left indicator on.> Yes, since I was looking to park, but I changed it on realising not much space4) Referred me to the picture where the car from behind seemed long behind > Yes, but that's in the picture. Please look at the video where you can see that it would have bumped into me if I had turned right.

Fully concur with you and it's my bad. I had forgotten about the PCN, until yesterday morning when fortunately I realised the hearing in the afternoon. I went in person, hoping it would make a difference - but didn't. The adjudicator read standard procedural disclaimers and then asked me to explain my side of the things. which I did. Then he kept countering me but you had a left signal and you did stop, I made counter-arguments (similar to my response), he looked visibly annoyed. Thereafter he asked me to leave and said that he will review the video and make his decision. That was it.Not much in the Council pack - it seemed all in line. there are pictures from the video - I have attached below. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

In hindsight, I could have prepared better. This was my response and I made similar arguments in person. I should have also mentioned about the absence of signpost - do you see it in the video (in my first post above) btw?++++Dear Sir / Madam,On the 16 October 2024, London Borough of Lambeth issued a parking charge notice highlighting a 47J contravention (Stopped at a restricted bus stop/stand). As the appellant I wish to refute these charges on the grounds that the alleged contravention did not occur. I have laid out the circumstances and supporting grounds below:As can be easily gauged in the evidence video (though limited) provided by Lambeth, I drove into the bus stop box to park into the parking box immediately ahead of it. I had requested the council to provide the full video (before where it starts, so it can be more clearly seen, but they have not provided).  I was trying to park in the parking space ahead before realizing not enough space and then the traffic prevented me from driving ahead. The two incoming vehicles and a cyclist prevented me from driving ahead, otherwise I could have likely injured a cyclist or bumped into another car. Once they moved on, I promptly turned into the right lane and drove on. At no stage while the car was into the box, there was any loading / unloading or another reason to stop into the box.I fully understand and appreciate the "No-Stop" rule, but I believe the council is incorrectly applying the rule similar to a yellow zig zag box / box junction where a car must only enter when there is a clear passage ahead and can exit promptly without stopping for even for traffic ahead. But I don't believe the two are the same because when a similar bus-stop with "no-stop" restriction is on a single lane road, a car can stop in the box due to traffic ahead. So, the box junction rules do not apply.Furthermore, even though no-stop restrictions apply at all times on red (or double red lines) without any need for a sign-board, if there is traffic on the road (for example) a red light or changing lanes, a car can pause temporarily for these reasons (i.e. traffic ahead or change lanes) etc as has been the case for me.For these reasons, I believe that the council is incorrectly applying the rule and propose that this appeal should be upheld and that Lambeth should be required to withdraw PCN Number LJ31265469.+++

Hi all, Thanks for your responses / help before. I had my Tribunal hearing yesterday that I went in person. The adjudicator I must say was unwilling to properly engage in conversation. In any case, no grudges, he ruled against me. However, their response is pretty absurd. I have three problems with their response. As always, would appreciate views from the learned members on this forum:1) First line on page 2 - "This is one of several appeals I am considering together arising out of Penalty Charge Notices issued in respect of the same vehicle, on different occasions." > Not true!! It was just one PCN and no other PCN. So factually incorrect !!2) "The Appellant's case is that" > Missing completely.. Proves my point above on bias and not really listening to my argument. 3) "The vehicle is seen to pass the sign which, as the evidence clearly shows, indicates that, except for buses, taxis and 'BG' permit holders, all motor vehicles are prohibited at all times."> There is no sign on the video or pictures. I have revisited the video, pictures as well as gone there again in person - And I couldn't find any such sign boards there. I may be wrong, but would appreciate if anyone can point it on the video above.I will pay up the PCN in coming days, but fundamentally I find this all wrong and system skewed against. The councils are acting as for-profit corporates and PoPLA seems like a sham!!I was told that the only recourse I have is to go to the High Court for wrong interpretation of the law. Is that really the case?Many Thanks!SG [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Ah, that gives me more confidence. Thanks again. Will update the post on how I progress with the next stage for the benefit of others in future.

Thanks v much for sharing your thoughts and prompt responses. As I think more, I am inclined to take my case to the tribunal. Here are my additional arguments - I understand the no-stop rules, but this is how I see it:1) Are the rules for bus-stop same as yellow zig-zag lines that you enter this box only when you have a clear passage ahead and can exit promptly without stopping for any reason? If yes, then I am indeed in breach. But I don't believe they are the same because when a similar bus-stop is on a single lane of road, clearly you are allowed to stop in the box due to traffic ahead. So, you can stop on the bus-stop due to onwards traffic or driving manoeuvre.2) Similar or more strict "No-stop" conditions apply on red (or double red) lines, but you can still temporarily stop for similar reasons as above due to onwards traffic or driving manoeuvre. No?As you can see from the video, I only stopped due to the incoming traffic which did not allow me to continue ahead. I was clearly in the wrong lane, which I am presuming was me trying to park ahead before realizing not enough space and then the traffic did not allow me to move ahead.I might be wrong here, but open to hear if you disagree as that would give me insight into how the adjudicator may take my arguments.

To be honest, I don't even remember. I don't usually drive on this road often. I did ask in my representation for the council to furnish the video before, as its only part video but they did not. My guess is that I perhaps wanted to park in the box ahead before a late realisation that there was not much space, or realised the sign board of "No stopping" too late before I was in that lane.

Also, Would you mind me asking if in your views is it worth taking the chance of putting up an apeal or better to just pay up. i.e. if you were in my shoes, would you appeal? I am usually minded to appeal by default but frankly quite unaware of the precedence here. Thanks again.

Thank you for the prompt response @stamfordman. My representation was the same that I was waiting for the cars and cyclist to pass which was part of the traffic. There was no intention to stop or park on the Bus Stop.