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Messages - NotFair

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1
There's a single round blue keep left sign, and the bollard. The GSV is from 2025, so is accurate.

I may just appeal stating the driver rarely drives in London and made a genuine mistake (which is all 100% true), expecting a rejection but you never know.

4
Hi all,

I received a windscreen PCN whilst parked in a pay by phone bay, outside a hospital.
The parking was for 4 hours (roughly 0830 to 1230, which is the max allowed stay, with no return in 4 hours), and the fairly routine visit was not expected to be any longer than this.
Instead, to cut a long story short, my wife ended up delivering our baby unexpectedly that afternoon!

I received a PCN timed 1529, code 11, which is parking without payment. It's not the code for overstaying a session, as far as I am aware.

I am going to appeal citing mitigating circumstances - we were definitely not expecting to be suddenly admitted and baby delivered. But I was wondering whether it's also worth mentioning that the wrong code has been used?
The car overstayed the session; the contravention was not that the parking was never paid for to begin with.

Thanks

5
Unfortunately, I never got the chance to appeal. The NTO was paid immediately by Tusker (lease company), who then just recharged the £160 to me (along with a cheeky admin fee). This was despite them assuring me they would tell TfL to redirect the NTO to me.

6
Hi all,

NoR has been received, as expected. They've re-offered the discount.

Do I have any other grounds for appeal?




7
Bumping as I don't have a great deal of time left to submit reps.

Any and all bright ideas welcome!

8
I think Highgate High St is in Haringey, and South Grove is in Camden.

9
I have received a PCN for a prohibited right turn at this location:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5708168,-0.1481945,3a,75y,99.17h,90.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQW3iqL6um82yOqhc02iztQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwOC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

The person driving insists that the signs, in the dead of the night, were not lit, and were not easily visible.

This is the video evidence provided:

https://imgur.com/exVsapN

And here is the PCN:




The previously known PCN defect appears to have been fixed.

Are there any grounds for appeal (other than trying to argue that the signs couldn't be seen?)

Thank you.

10
The PCN was cancelled on review of the appeal. Unfortunately, though, not because of the yellow box issue but because TfL took such a long time to respond to reps.

11
Thanks all.

There is a helpful website which actually has a pretty perfect photograph of the exact junction in question, gate and all, which I've included in my appeal for review: https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/1-the-box

I've submitted this:

---

Following the decision of Adjudicator Mr John Lane, in which my appeal was refused, I now wish to apply to the adjudicator for a review of the decision under paragraph 12 of Schedule 1 to The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022. I am making this application within 14 days of the date of the adjudicator’s decision.
I am seeking review on the following ground(s): The interests of justice require a review.
My reasons for applying for a review are as follows:
1.   The adjudicator failed to address and consider the very specific fact that the second alleged "road" is private and gated to which the public does not have access. It is therefore not a "road" as per the Road Traffic Act 1988 definition and the yellow box is therefore not in a permitted location. This was detailed in the original appeal to TfL, but does not appear to have been considered by the adjudicator. I enclose a photograph below of the supposed “road” in question, and the yellow box. This is clearly private, gated, closed, and thus the “road” is not at all accessible to the public. It therefore fails to meet the legal definition of “road”. It should be noted that the gate was closed at the time of the alleged contravention.
 

I quote below some legal cases, and also a London Tribunals adjudication, that further confirm this viewpoint. There is no information/detail as to how the adjudicator came to his conclusion. TfL also failed to provide any evidence that it is a "road" to which the public have access.


London Tribunals case 2220655535 (Kate Gardener vs London Borough of Croydon):

This is a case in which a box junction has been placed at a junction between a private driveway and a road. The appeal was allowed. The junction above, Ealing Village, is also a private driveway, and so this case sets an important precedent.

“Second, I find that the box junction in this particular case extends beyond a junction, it appears to extend for some distance in front of the driveway of a private building. Whilst the TSRGD 2016 has relaxed the law in relation to box junctions, such as the need for Departmental approval and to touch the kerb. They did not dispense with the requirement for box junctions to be at junctions (or outside police or fire stations); they cannot be placed anywhere.”


From https://www.londondrinkdrivingsolicitor.co.uk/-What-is-a-road-anyway:

"Mrs Justice Rafferty held in Hallett v DPP that the presence of a sign or barrier lends weight to a claim that the land is open only to a special class of the public and thus that it is not a road to which the public has access."

"The Divisional Court, presided over by Lord Widgery, heard the case of Deacon v AT (A Minor) and concluded that the land must be open to the public in general and not merely a special class of the public, such as residents or visitors."

2.   TfL took 5 months to respond to representations. The adjudicator seems to have ignored the fact that (as quoted on London Tribunals own website: https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process) "the adjudicators have decided that a Enforcement Authority should normally respond to representations within 3 months." In this case, TfL have given no explanation to justify the undue delay in sending their Notice of Rejection.

12
Yes, post 19. I posted that a couple of days before submission to TfL.

It was, unfortunately, a papers hearing. Lesson learned.

I still have 5 days to go before the 14 days for review are up. I am just wondering what to write and how to phrase, as the review criteria seem very specific.

13
Not yet.
I came here to seek some advice first.
Please feel free to suggest what I should write?
I thought my tribunal appeal was fine 🤷🏽.
Clearly it wasn't.

14
Do the adjudicators not refer to the original reps (as is stated when completing the tribunal application)?

I didn't include all the fine details as they're all mentioned in the reps, which they say they will read...

The process is unfair to the lay person (me) if the adjudication only looks at the tribunal form and absolutely nothing else.

15
Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately cp8759, I missed your message. It turns out all e-mail notifications from this forum appear to be getting intercepted by the spam filter, which is a shame, as I'd have taken you up on it.

The hearing was on the papers. I had no ability to attend personally.

I will dig out the original reps.

This was my LT appeal (which I expect to be criticised for!):

Quote
ABUSE OF PROCESS
Transport for London have taken in excess of 5 months to respond to the representations initially submitted. This is significantly more than the 56 day limit stated in the regulations. It is highly unreasonable for Transport for London to abuse the process in this manner. Despite the length of time taken, their response does not in any way address the representations submitted and almost entirely ignores the core issue raised. This is unreasonably dismissive and constitutes a failure to consider.

ORIGINAL REPRESENTATIONS
TfL have largely ignored the original representation that the yellow box junction in question is invalid. The yellow box does not meet the official definition per the law. We maintain that the contravention cannot have occurred on this basis.

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