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Messages - ST_2023

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1
I have filed my reps today and went with this version, I will update you when I shall hear back from them: 

Reps: I challenge this PCN because the restriction was not adequately visible from my direction of travel. The relevant sign was turned away from approaching traffic and could not reasonably or safely be read from a moving vehicle in a busy live traffic lane. The upright sign was turned away from approaching traffic. From my position in a busy live traffic lane, I could not properly read the restriction, the permitted use or the operating times while moving.  I pulled into the area briefly so I could read the sign and understand what applied. Once I was close enough to do so, I immediately realised that the exception in force at 18:53 did not apply to my vehicle.  I then left as soon as it was safe and practical to do so. The council’s own CCTV shows traffic passing on my right, including a bus, and a pedestrian walking alongside the driver’s side of my vehicle before I was able to pull away.  No passenger got in or out of the vehicle. I did not stay there waiting once I understood the restriction. A driver cannot reasonably be expected to comply with a restriction that cannot be read from the direction of approach. Pulling in briefly to read a poorly positioned sign and not legible enough to read it all, then leaving at the first safe opportunity once it becomes clear that the exemption does not apply, is not the same as deliberately stopping or waiting in breach of the restriction.

Second, I dispute that the signs and road markings at this location comply with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016.  I require the council to identify the precise TSRGD provisions, permitted variants or any special authorisation relied upon for this arrangement.

In those circumstances, I do not accept that a contravention occurred. A driver cannot reasonably be expected to comply with a restriction that cannot be read from the direction of approach.  I would also ask the council to consider the circumstances of this case fairly and proportionately. The CCTV does not show deliberate waiting or an attempt to take advantage of the restriction. It shows a brief stop to ascertain a restriction that was not readable from my approach, followed by departure as soon as it was safe to do so. Treating the mere fact that the vehicle became stationary as sufficient, without considering that sequence, would in my view be an overly rigid application of the restriction.

In those circumstances, I do not accept that a contravention occurred and I ask that the PCN be cancelled.

2
Here are my reps, please advise if anything needs amending:

I challenge this PCN because the restriction was not adequately conveyed from my direction of approach, and the council’s own CCTV shows that I stopped only long enough to ascertain the restriction and left at the first safe opportunity.

1. The sign was not readable from my direction of approach

The relevant upright sign was twisted away from approaching traffic. Its wording, permitted activities and operating times. I could not establish whether the marked area permitted passenger collection without moving closer. I therefore pulled into the area briefly for the sole purpose of reading the restriction. Once close enough to understand the sign, I immediately realised that the exception operating at 18:53 did not apply to my vehicle.

2. I left at the earliest safe opportunity.  The council’s complete CCTV footage supports my account and explains the entire duration of the stop. It shows that my vehicle was initially at the front of stationary traffic at the lights. After I pulled into the area, seven vehicles, including a bus, passed on my right. A pedestrian also walked the full length of my vehicle immediately alongside the driver’s side in the carriageway. It would have been unsafe to move while the pedestrian was directly beside the vehicle or to pull into passing traffic without a safe gap. I drove away as soon as the pedestrian had cleared and it was safe to rejoin the carriageway. No passenger boarded or alighted. I did not remain after understanding the restriction, and the footage does not show deliberate waiting or an attempt to collect a passenger.

3. The stop resulted from an inadequately presented restriction. I did not stop to take advantage of the bay. I stopped because the sign’s orientation prevented the restriction from being read from my direction of travel.  Having established what the sign said, I left as soon as reasonably and safely possible. The council should consider the full CCTV sequence objectively rather than treating the mere fact that the vehicle became stationary as conclusive. The footage shows a brief stop to ascertain an unreadable restriction, followed by departure at the first safe opportunity.

4. Sign and road-marking compliance.  There are also legitimate concerns about whether the exact combination of signs and markings complies with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. The upright sign combines:

goods-vehicle loading between 6 am and 6 pm; and
taxis between 6 pm and 6 am.

The bay is bounded by white broken markings while double red lines continue alongside it.

I require the council to identify the precise TSRGD provisions and permitted variants relied upon for:

the complete upright sign;
the combination of goods-vehicle loading and taxi restrictions within the same sign assembly;
the white broken bay boundary;
the double red lines alongside the bay; and
the complete arrangement of signs and markings at this location.

If the arrangement is not prescribed, the council should provide any applicable special authorisation issued by the Secretary of State. I am not asserting merely that white markings cannot appear on a red route. The issue is whether this particular sign and marking arrangement lawfully and clearly conveys the restrictions created by the relevant Traffic Management Order.

The council’s own evidence shows that the sign was not readable from my direction of approach;
I pulled in briefly to establish what restriction applied;
no passenger boarded or alighted;
passing traffic and a pedestrian prevented an immediate safe departure; and
I left at the first safe opportunity after understanding the sign.

Accordingly, the alleged contravention did not occur and the PCN should be cancelled. Should the council reject these representations, please provide:

a reasoned explanation of how the sign’s orientation adequately conveyed the restriction from my direction of approach;
the complete, unedited CCTV footage;
the applicable Traffic Management Order and all relevant schedules and plans;
the precise TSRGD provisions and permitted variants relied upon;
any Secretary of State authorisation;
the sign’s inspection and maintenance records; and
any contemporaneous photographs showing the orientation of the sign.

Please also confirm that the council has considered whether to exercise its discretion to cancel the PCN separately from its consideration of the statutory ground.

3
Redbridge is I think the only London council that has its own red route (everywhere else is TFL).

I can't see how they can mark a bay with double red lines and allow some exempted waiting.

Your stop is too long to just check the sign - why did you stop and how do you account for what you were doing during the entire stop?

https://maps.app.goo.gl/9QPnwW2B3WqRkAeZA

[img width=722.993896484375 height=637.993896484375]https://i.ibb.co/0y7fbLNG/Screenshot-2026-07-31-at-11-12-59.png[/img]

Fair point. I pulled in because the sign was twisted and could not be read clearly from my direction of travel. Once I was closer the restriction was more visible realised it did not permit me to stop at that time. Tincombe has helpfully observed from the footage, traffic was stationary at the lights with my car first in the queue. I then pulled into the area and stopped. During that time, several vehicles, including a bus, passed on my right, and a pedestrian walked alongside the driver’s side of my car in the carriageway. I pulled out as soon as the pedestrian had cleared and there was a safe gap in the traffic.
No passenger boarded or alighted, and I was not waiting there once I understood the restriction.

There is no option to attach the PCN to this post, but here is the link to the PCN:
https://limewire.com/d/LlKSp#HhzkwdGOf6

4
This seems to be an up-and-coming PCN ‘hot spot’. I believe the signs are double-sided at this location. Nevertheless, IMO the signs do not comply with the TSRGD because they incorporate loading and taxis is the same panel. The road markings are also questionable. For example, IMO the white broken line should be red (TSRGD: S7-4-6 and S7-5-5).

Do you think those points are strong enough to form a proper appeal, rather than just a request for discretion? Also, would you suggest challenging on both the signage and road markings, with reference to TSRGD S7-4-6 and S7-5-5?

5
I received a Redbridge PCN for contravention 46n, “stopped where prohibited on a red route or clearway”, at 18:53 on Cranbrook Road, Ilford, just outside Ilford station.

I pulled into the area shown in the attached photographs because, from the road layout, it initially appeared to be somewhere passenger collection might be permitted. I stopped only very briefly for about 20sec. Once I had a chance to look at the sign and noticed the red-route restriction, I immediately pulled away. Based on the CCTV timestamps, I believe the vehicle was stationary for only around 20 seconds.

Based on the PCN, signage and very short stop, is there any realistic case to contest this, or is the general view that I should pay the discounted amount? I have not yet submitted representations.

I can't seem to find an option to attach the PCN or the pic of the signage


https://vimeo.com/1214407957?share=copy&fl=sv&fe=ci

6
Thanks, that’s helpful and fair. I agree this location often turns on adjudicator judgment rather than a clear-cut defect.

On the footage, I accept it may look like I’m “charging past” the signs, but that’s precisely the issue I’m raising. After the left into Handforth Road and the right turn into Clements Road, the restriction appears after the bend, leaving no safe opportunity to stop or divert once it becomes clear. My case isn’t that I ignored the signs, but that the layout gives insufficient reaction time at the decision point.

In 2240478986 (Santosh Kumari) the adjudicator accepted that, despite advance signage, the carriageway legend misleadingly suggested that entering the road itself led into the restriction, creating ambiguity as to where it actually began. That same layout issue appears unchanged in my photos.

I appreciate views on whether, in light of Santosh Kumari (2240478986) and similar cases with positive and negative outcomes, this still crosses the threshold from mitigation into a viable signage-adequacy argument?

7
PCN issued by London Borough of Redbridge for using a restricted route at Clements Road. I approached Winston Way and turned left into Handforth road and then right onto Clements road. The restriction sign was located after a bend in the road which gave me little room to react and was too late when I noticed and could not safely avoid.

The carriageway legend appears before or alongside the turning movement, which makes it appear that entering Clements Road itself leads directly into the restriction. This creates ambiguity about where the restriction begins. This is the same defect identified in case 2240478986 (Santosh Kumari v Redbridge), where the adjudicator found that the legend placement misleadingly suggested that bearing into the road entered the restricted route and ruled the contravention not proved. From my photos, the layout appears unchanged.

I tried searching on the London Tribunals using PCN Location Clements Road and found several cases, some of which were allowed and others rejected.  Please share your views if this is worth contesting?

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/redbridge-council-clements-road-contravention-of-33j/msg59650/?topicseen#msg59650

PCN:
https://freeimage.host/i/f4E3bTJ
https://freeimage.host/i/f4E3pQR

Google Maps:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sDeJj9fyhmUwRwir9

Video:
https://vimeo.com/1157371096?share=copy&fl=sv&fe=ci

8
Hi, yes there is one for Skeffington Road and another one for Caulfield Road - video preview shows for the 1st only, please scroll through and there is link for 2nd video https://vimeo.com/1100571153?share=copy#t=0 (Caulfield Road)

9
I’ve received two PCNs from Newham for 53J contraventions — issued just 1 minute apart, on the same road but from different cameras. There was no attempt to flout the restriction, just a lapse in memory after a long day. I genuinely thought it ended at 5:30pm instead of 6pm. I didn’t spot signage that would’ve reminded me — though I accept that’s on me.

Is there any ground to challenge one (or both) based on timing or duplication? They seem like a duplicate penalty for the same mistake. Of course, if I have to pay, one PCN would feel more proportionate.

Would really appreciate any advice or similar experiences. Thanks in advance!


https://vimeo.com/1100570368?share=copy (Skeffington Road)


https://vimeo.com/1100571153?share=copy#t=0 (Caulfield Road)

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10
I'm trying to make representations and this is the option I get where I must select any ONE of the listed reasons which seems to contradict the PCN.

https://imgur.com/Fy1WEBc

11
The PCN hasn't been paid yet, and I wanted to hear views before making the payment. If the chances aren't good, it might not be worth risking the full amount.

12
That's true, its an area with less traffic sense and had waited a while but with cars nipping in it does not help.

Here is the image of the PCN to see if it contains errors of content for a review:

https://imgur.com/a/GBgQBZu

I did see another post but there were no updates further, looks like op has decided to pay it off using discount.

13
Hello all, I have received a PCN from London Borough of Redbridge at York Road . I was stationary in the box junction because I believed I had the right of way and proceeded ahead. However, I later realized that the car ahead of me had moved forward and claimed priority.

Is it worth contesting this or use 50% discount and pay £65 PCN penalty? Please advise.

PCN NO: AF98991349
Contravention: 31J Entering and Stopping in a box junction when prohibited (Camera enforcement)
Vehicle Reg#: DP16 SXM
Google maps location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/vbgUbcadFDxyNWKb7
Unable to attach PCN notice and photos due to size restrictions.



Video link: https://youtu.be/q0Ep-367RsY


14
Massive thanks to @mrmustard, Redbridge Council has officially communicated to me, confirming they will no longer contest the appeal. The case is now closed.

15
Appeal allowed for Case 2230524078 Adjudicator Belinda Pearce date 2 January 2024

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