Show Posts - lexy

Yeah, you're in a bad spot here.Here's the thing - if you had received the original penalties, your chances of successfully appealing them would have been decent. There's a sign telling you not to turn left into Vestry Road, but it's before the junction you pulled out of.The problem is, these PCNs are dated five months after you moved house. That's way too long to get away with "I had just moved house". As the other reply has pointed out, you won one out-of-time request purely on a technicality because TFL forgot to reply. That's it, that's the only reason, nothing to do with your argument.You only get one shot at an out-of-time request. If that fails, that's the end of the road without paying money. The only option is an N244, but as you point out, that's expensive - especially for eight PCNs. By the way, the £123 per PCN fee you quoted is just for a postal decision. The judge looks at the paperwork in private and makes a decision. If you actually want to stand in front of a judge and talk to them, it's £313 per PCN.The N244 isn't a fresh chance at another appeal - it's just a review. Did the judge make the right legal decision the first time. The answer is almost always "yes".If you did pay that, it's only going to end one way."So these PCNs were issued in September 2025. When did you move house?""April 2025.""Five months before? Rejected."You're £313 out-of-pocket in court costs (per PCN) and you still owe the full balance on the PCNs.Speak to BailiffAdviceOnline to see if they have any smart ideas. But you're probably cheaper just forgetting the N244s and paying the bailiffs. You're in an unpleasant situation here and it's entirely because of the V5C address being wrong. Sadly, the law says that if TfL send documentation to the address on the V5C, and the only reason you don't get the documents is because you moved house and didn't update the V5C, then the council correctly served the documents and it's your fault you didn't get them. Harsh, but that's what the law says.

Some councils do contract parking enforcement to private companies. Edinburgh and Oxford use NSL to issue penalty charge notices and handle payments, for example.The Northern Irish legislation does let them do this. See section 2b on the “traffic attendants” page.

If it’s SORN and uninsured then it really shouldn’t be parked on the road. Even if you’re not using it and not moving it. That can get you much worse than a PCN.

"Assisted boarding and alighting" is allowed on double yellow lines. You don't need to display or even own a blue badge to use it. Anyone can stop on yellow lines to help their granny / disabled friend / young child into a building.

Doesn’t matter who was actually driving.Penalty charge notices are served on the registered keeper of the car. It’s their responsibility to pay it or deal with the paperwork. When you reply to an Order for Recovery, that’s court paperwork. You can’t just fill it out under somebody else’s name - she’ll need to do it herself.Tell her to file the paperwork and send you the new penalty as soon as it arrives, and you’ll pay it. If she doesn’t file the paperwork, the bailiffs will come after her, not you. She’s only hurting herself if she doesn’t.

Your biggest problem is gonna be the fact that it's a rental car. If the council writes to Europcar and tells them there's a penalty charge notice against the car, Europcar will charge a £50 admin fee. Europcar will also either:

• just pay the penalty charge notice, then bill it to your credit card
• supply your name and address to the council, transferring liability to you

Europcar also say they won't refund the £50 admin charge if you win the appeal. They'll only refund it if you win and the council confirms in writing that the penalty charge notice should never have been issued. That's a really weird requirement and councils don't usually give that. So it looks like you won't be getting that £50 back easily.That kind of changes your priorities when dealing with appeals. Instead of doing "the right thing", you're focusing on "what will cost me less?". There are some places in England where a penalty charge is only £25 if you pay up quickly - it makes more sense to pay those than it does to pay the £50 Europcar admin fee, for example.Your most important question is, do you have good reasons to appeal, or should you pay the £80 before it goes up to £130 or £210 once Europcar get involved?Councils are allowed to have yellow lines that have different enforcement days and times to the bays. That isn't unusual - it happens in a lot of places. Assuming the lines will have the same times as the bays generally isn't a good idea.The sign for the single yellow line (the small yellow one) being twisted and facing away from the road is a potential problem. That makes it much harder to see, especially at night in the dark. Some councils would back down if you showed photographic evidence of that - I know my local council would. But London councils are known to play hardball and reject everyone's first challenge. That's probably your strongest appeal point if you do decide to appeal.

Quote from: mitzberg on 13 Nov, 2025 12:06Where is the grace period??England has a ten-minute grace period but it doesn't apply to Scotland. The only rule is that councils are expected to be 'reasonable and fair'. Five minutes is generally considered the bottom end of reasonable and fair.Quote from: mitzberg on 13 Nov, 2025 12:06Should I ignore andnot pay?Wouldn't recommend it. Scottish councils have powers that English councils don't. You'll end up with Scott & Co at your door and that's not pleasant.

You’re in a really bad spot here.In England, there’s a special court that acts as the last line of defence in these cases. It gives councils the final go-ahead to use bailiffs, and can order them to stop.That’s not the case in Scotland. Councils can go straight to bailiffs without touching a court because they have debt collection powers that English councils don’t have.I don’t know the process to get this sorted, and I don’t think anyone else here does either.  If I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably a specific piece of paperwork at the Sheriff Court.You should speak to Citizens Advice Scotland immediately. There’s a substantial danger of you having to pay these penalties, plus Sheriffs Officers costs. They absolutely can and will just take the money from your bank account.

That is a mess. Notice to Owner on an excess charge that requires the *driver* to pay it?I seem to remember there was some discussion a long time ago about whether the enforcement of excess charges could be outsourced to companies like NSL in the way penalty charge notices can. Not sure if that came to anything.The main thing you need to know is that this is not a penalty charge notice. It is an excess charge notice. They are completely different. 99% of what you find online about parking tickets won’t apply to this.Excess charge notices are very rare and you don’t have the same right to appeal, and you can potentially end up in court on a criminal charge for non-payment.

Generally none. They’ll have a look around and see if anyone is using the machines or walking between the car and the machines. If not, they’ll issue a penalty.The moment you walk off and either leave the car park or disappear round a corner into another street, you’re fair game.Walking away to get change from a shop, and things like that, generally aren’t allowed. Walking out of an underground car park to get better mobile signal is somewhat OK.Generally if you paid within two or three minutes of getting a PCN, you’ve got an OK appeal. More than five is tough unless you’ve got a very good reason.

Don’t ask AI for opinions. AI is good at making things that look right and sound reasonable, but are actually completely wrong.I’m a software developer. Believe me, AI is useless and gives wrong answers all the time. It’s not as smart as everyone thinks it is.This is a council matter. No points. Just a penalty charge.There will either be a CCTV camera attached to a lamp post, watching the entrance to the area, or they’ll occasionally send a CCTV van round to watch it. You don’t get penalties from eyewitnesses or Ring doorbells. Council have to catch you themselves.You’ll find out at some point in the next 28 days. The most it can be is £65 if you pay within 14 days. It’s £80 for some TfL things in London but I don’t think this is one of them.

It is free after 6PM, but only until 7:30PM. Then it becomes no parking overnight until 8AM.Sign looks fairly standard. There’s a set of rules councils are expected to follow.

Doesn’t matter.The law changed a few years ago. The days of people getting out of penalty charges because the lines are slightly damaged or T bars are missing are long gone.If the average person would look at them and think “those are two yellow lines” then they’re enforceable, even if they’re faded.It’s called Substantial Compliance.

Were you the registered keeper or hirer of this car at any point in the past, or is it a completely phantom car?Here’s your problem. There’s a process to go through and hoops to jump through when appealing a PCN. You have to do the right thing at the right time. Penalty charge notices are a civil process that works on “guilty until proven innocent”. Unless you can convince someone to cancel it, you’re on the hook for the amount.There’s a fairly substantial chance you’re going to have to pay this unless you plan your next move very carefully. You’re probably at a stage where you need actual legal advice from a lawyer, not parking ticket advice. That will probably cost as much as just paying TfL.What happened with the appeal to the tribunal, and how did you end up at a court in Peterborough?

It’s the registered keeper’s responsibility to pay it, not the driver. That’s how council penalties work.By all means, pay it and get the money from them. But don’t just hand the letter to them and say “here, you pay this”. Because if they don’t pay it, it’s you the council will come after.There’s a 28 day limit for serving a penalty charge notice. I think it’s 28 days to you receiving it, not 28 days to them posting it. Happy to be corrected on that.Usually when this happens, it’s because the council took 27 days to print and post it. Those ones can be cancelled fairly easily. That’s not the case here - the council printed it fairly quickly and the post took forever. It’s hard to prove that.You can send an appeal to the council and ask them to re-offer the discount. Most will, but some play hardball with postal PCNs and don’t re-offer it. It’s worth a try - you’ve got nothing to lose.