Show Posts - sideadder

Thanks!Elsewhere on this forum, Gemini have rejected this https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/gemini-parking-solutions-gunnersbury-park/msg46334/#msg46334How does this usually end? Do they just keep posting/emailing to make you pay up?

Claremont Way car park is located on a newly build town (with housing, restaurants, parks) near to where the driver lives. It has a three hour free time limit (The driver doesn't believe you can pay for extra time). The Google street view of the area is old and incorrect but this video is accurate: https://www.facebook.com/brentcrosstown/videos/did-you-know-behind-claremont-way-theres-a-free-carpark-located-behind-cricklewo/555844885915920/On 10/11/24, the driver parked the car in the car park and took their two young children to the park, met some friends for lunch in the local restaurant and struggled to get the young children back to the car. Once at the car one of the children needed a nappy change which added on more time before they could actually leave. In the end the driver left 14 minutes after the 3 hr free period expiredThe V5C is in possession.Today the registered keeper received the following PCN:Any advice gratefully received!Given it's a newly built town, with a visitor centre trying to sell flats etc. the driver thought emailing the visitor centre might be worth a go? https://brentcrosstown.co.uk/ See if they have any sway

So here's how this turned out. I called the number on the Barnet website under 'Challenge a PCN'.They were actually very friendly on the phone, which surprised me.She emailed me the letter of rejection apparently sent at the start of October.Once I explained that the letter of rejection must have been lost in the post, she changed the fine back to the original price of £65.Now looking at the letter of rejection, it seems baloney. Barnet argue:QuoteWe have carefully considered your comments you have supplied and decided not to cancelyour PCN.We have reviewed your response in which you state that Tilling Road is a GLA Road and asper a previous case you have provided evidence of the PCN is not valid. However, we mustadvise that the evidence has no bearing and every case is reviewed and judged separately, assuch the Council deem that the PCN is valid.I don't have the fight in me to take this to the next step, so I have paid the fine. But given they haven't given any actual reasons why the outcome of "Michael Strom v London Borough of Barnet" is not valid then I can only assume that's it's still a good argument even if you'd have to take it onwards to prevail.Thank you all with your help

In the post today I received a Charge Certificate for this PCN, raising the charge to £195!To be clear:- I did make representations against the original PCN within 14 days. I have the acknowledgement email to prove it.- I did not receive any notice of rejection. So either it wasn't sent or it got lost in the post.Any advice on how to proceed?

I challenged the PCN on Weds 11 September. I received an automated acknowledgement email saying "a response should be issued within the next 14 days".14 working days from 11 Sep is 1 Oct but I still haven't had a response. Is there anyway to check?

I've anxious to submit my representations, I've only got a couple of days before the penalty charge increases so here's a draft. Any comments?Dear Barnet CouncilI refer to the decision of the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators (ETA), case reference 2230545486 - Michael Strom v London Borough of Barnet from 22 January 2024.This decision relates to the same matter as in the present Penalty Charge Notice, namely a left turn onto Tilling Road Junction Brenfield Gardens (NW2).The Adjudicator found for Mr. Strom since:"the road in question is a GLA road by virtue of the GLA Roads (No.3) Designation Order 2008; and that therefore written consent of the GLA is required before the Council can enforce this contravention".The Adjudicator therefore finds in favour of Mr Strom and cancels the PCN.The PCN issued here addresses the same issue and should likewise be cancelled.I also note the Council's response, which was not found to be convincing by the Adjudicator:"Although I note the Council’s response it does seem to me that the description of the road in the designation Order “NORTH CIRCULAR ROAD (A406) OFF SLIP ROAD, the south side from a point 3 metres south-west of the extended north easternmost building line of Garden Court Hotel, Tilling Road to its roundabout junction with the unnamed M1 Motorway slip roads” appears to include the whole of Tilling Road. Certainly the evidence from a website is not detailed enough to demonstrate otherwise; and the Council’s reference to the road being maintainable at the public expense seems to me to have no bearing on the matter."Therefore, please cancel this PCN.There's a lot of detail in cp8759's post here but I don't think I need to include it with my representations, let me know if you disagree:Quote from: cp8759 on 20 Oct, 2023 23:39Quote from: ashirusnw on 20 Oct, 2023 01:44The 2008 order does include roads in Barnet on pages 5-8 but incorrectly under the heading of "GLA Roads in London Borough of Barking & Dagenham" which is given twice ! (probably drafted with wrong/duplicated heading because Barnet following Barking next in alphabetical order)So it does!I think this is the relevant entry (my bold): NORTH CIRCULAR ROAD (A406) OFF SLIP ROAD, the south side from a point 3 metres south-west of the extended north easternmost building line of Garden Court Hotel, Tilling Road to its roundabout junction with the unnamed M1 Motorway slip roads So we don't have to worry about the end of red route sign being on the boundary or anything of that sort, because all of Tilling Road is a GLA road. This being the case, the borough cannot enforce without the prior written consent of Transport for London (which they won't have because they won't have bothered reading the legislation).Here are a few cases won on this point:William Samuel v London Borough of Lewisham (2220837736, 13 December 2022)Commercial Plant Services Ltd v London Borough of Lambeth (2230127577, 15 March 2023)Maurice Luftig v London Borough of Hackney (2230151491, 15 April 2023)Robert Greens v London Borough of Lewisham (2230366024, 11 September 2023)Let us know when you get the rejection and I'll sort out the appeal for you. The outcome cannot guaranteed, but what I can tell you is that this argument has never lost.

cp8759 - are the arguments you put forth in ETA case reference 2230545486 (Michael Strom v London Borough of Barnet - 22 January 2024) still valid?Can you suggest some arguments I can use for my own case?Thanks

Referencing this thread - https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-for-illegal-left-turn/, which had a successful outcome.The PCN is below (and here https://imgur.com/a/QX90ZML), it's an unallowed left turn on Tilling Road, near Brent Cross shopping centre. I thought given the detail in the referenced thread it was worth sending in some representations. Do you have any advice? Much appreciated in advance!Street view of the turning: https://maps.app.goo.gl/DyxQun1ikcZeXQJq8

Today I received a PCN for this same offence - letter looks the same to the original post.Given the successful outcome for ashirusnw and cp8759, is there any advice you can give for what to write to Barnet in terms of representations?Thanks in advance