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Messages - pelicancricket

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For some strange reason you've blanked all the dates on the permit letter.

Strictly speaking it's not a continuous contravention but they say there are no grounds to cancel when they did find grounds for the first one.

I would write a polite representation about your misunderstanding, noting the cancellation of the first and of course that you had a valid permit.

Harrow is a bit behind the times but I must say I'm surprised you didn't think a paper permit wasn't sent for fun...




Didn't respond to your reply earlier. Thanks for the advice, here's what I wrote (1000 char limit didn't help):





Also attached the accompanying permit letter sent to another resident (posted earlier in this thread) along with the one I was sent.

And in return I received this from the council:









Haven't yet heard back from my subject access request from the council where I was hoping to prove that CEOs were looking up my permit digitally and not issuing PCNs.. Not sure if there's any point in chasing if others think my case is not worth taking forward - any thoughts?

2
Thanks - wasn't aware I could submit reps online.

Would you advise as to which argument I should expand on for the reps? I've read it's common for the council to flat out reject them, and that it's best to not show your hand till the tribunal stage.

Cheers.

3
Hi all,

Received NtO a while back but only just getting around to dealing with it.














I believe I have 28 days from the date of the notice (06/09/2024) which is Friday 04/10/2024. Will be sending my appeal response signed for just to be safe.

I should add this additional picture which I saw when on a walk which mentions being issued with a PCN if the permit is not fully displayed





Versus the letter I was sent





Could I use this as a basis for my NTO appeal? Alternatively the continuous contravention may apply here, and seeing as the initial PCN was cancelled it follows (if thinking rationally) that this PCN should have been too.

Thanks for any advice in advance!

4
Hi all,

I am yet to receive my notice to owner (NtO) for the ticket that was not cancelled.

As a reminder contravention occurred 19/07/24, appeal rejected 22/07/2024.



Should I chase for NtO to be issued/enquire if it's gone missing in post or just wait?

Thanks in advance.

5
SAR submitted today requesting VRM lookups, unlikely they turn it around before I receive my NtO.

Regarding making formal representation, should I provide a basic argument at this stage with a view to 'expand' once escalated to the tribunals?

6
Many thanks for the reply @Incandescent


Quote
What puzzles me, however, is that one PCN was cancelled, and one not. When you submitted representations, did you not link the two PCNs as both were related to your misunderstanding of the council scheme.
​

I stupidly copied and pasted the same appeal text for both without mentioning that two had been issued. One would hope that the person responsible would take this into consideration for both PCN appeals :(


Quote
I think I would be tempted to wait for the NtO and submit a formal representation, but this time mentioning that actually two PCNs had been issued because of your misunderstanding of the scheme, and it therefore seems unfair that one PCN was cancelled, and the other one not.  They will probably refuse and re-offer the discount, but at least you will have tried. I don't think I would take the matter to London Tribunals unless the discount is not re-offered, because your case is not all that strong, and adjudicators can only decide on law, not mitigation.

If I can evidence my claim of CEOs arbitrarily applying the law relating to enforcement action through the use of subject access requests (or similar) would it be worthwhile taking it to the tribunals? Ideally I'd like to get the CEO's handheld device lookup record for my VRM, there should be multiple date/time entries as I hadn't been displaying the physical permit until a few days ago.


After some Google searching I found two documents:

1. 'Harrow Parking Management and Enforcement Strategy 2019' which has a section on virtual permits:



2. Subject: Parking Review – Introduction of Virtual Parking Permits



Can the above two documents be considered as confirmation that Harrow Council do indeed have virtual permits for resident parking? If so, could I potentially refute the claim of not having valid virtual permit as per the PCN text?

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

7
Hi all,

1. Recently moved and registered for a residents parking permit which was approved last month.

2. Received permit letter in post (below), letter only had a few lines with no instructions re. displaying permit. (Now displaying permit to avoid further PCN fun ;D)



3. Since moving in & parking in resident only bays I have seen CEOs check my car reg on multiple occasions using a handheld device and go about their day -- so assumed displaying physical permit was not necessary as permit (virtual?) was clearly being looked up/validated by CEO.

4. Issued two PCNs, 18th July and 19th July. Appealed both on same grounds and had earlier one cancelled, latter appeal was rejected.

- 18th July PCN




- 19th July PCN




- PCN challenge appeal

I very much regret not posting here prior to submitting this, submitted the same for both PCNs.



- Appeal decision letters

18th July



19th July




Additional information:

- Car mugshot pics:









- Online parking permit terms found on the councils website do mention displaying a permit (highlighted)



- PCN text states "PARKED IN A RESIDENTS' OR SHARED USE PARKING PLACE OR ZONE WITHOUT A VALID VIRTUAL PERMIT OR CLEARLY DISPLAYING A VALID PHYSICAL PERMIT OR VOUCHER OR PAY AND DISPLAY TICKET ISSUED FOR THAT PLACE WHERE REQUIRED, OR WITHOUT PAYMENT OF THE PARKING CHARGE"

Does a residents permit qualify as a valid virtual permit?

- Spoke with parking control on the phone who said instructions for 'newer' residents permits were online and no longer included in the letter. Likely not useful but here is the letter provided with visitor permits which has clear instructions



Wondering if I should cough up and pay off the outstanding ticket. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

Edit: Including PCN/VRM as per forum guidance


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