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Messages - DB40

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: August 08, 2024, 12:39:50 pm »
I am beyond appreciative of all the advice offered, but for the non-advice posters I would just like to point out that it is not necessary to point out to me how they are not responsible for my level of understanding (of course not) or that I should try reading the post (I did, but needed further clarification as I did not understand fully - and yes, that is my responsibility, no one else’s). I am not educated to any significant level nor am I knowledgeable about legal matters. I humbly ask for advice because I am clueless and probably not clever enough to understand what is about to happen. Thanks so much for all your help everyone and hopefully this may be of help to others who may one day find themselves in the same position. I’ll update once we have been to court

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: August 08, 2024, 12:29:16 pm »
Us = husband and I. I am aware that only one of us is being charged but it’s very much a family problem (which I caused as I am the one who committed the original speeding offence), I did not think this would cause confusion but apologies if it did

They = the police

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: August 07, 2024, 04:52:36 pm »
Update: pleaded guilty, court responded to say that they are unable to accept our plea of guilty and gave us a court date. Also said we should consider seeking legal advice which I hope is just a standard line.

I’m so confused, they say husband was guilty, he accepts and pleads guilty, and now they are unable to accept that plea? Is this because we also said that a) we replied to the police letter as soon as we had it b) we had no intention to evade responsibility for the speeding offence c) we believe the mail got lost and offered a possible explanation along with evidence such as previous neighbours confirming same happened to them on two occasions

I can only assume this has been regarded as an attempt to pervert the course of justice as a previous poster warned me about

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: July 13, 2024, 09:45:21 pm »
@NewJudge thank you, it won’t be life changing if it isn’t a criminal offence, so this forum has already been immensely helpful in putting my racing mind at some ease.

It comes down to whether we can prove that the letters didn’t reach us. I appreciate that this won’t be easy. While I have plenty of proof that couriers can’t find us it’s not as easy with the Royal Mail. It happened once about four years ago but I have no written proof of this.

Personally I think it’s much more likely that our neighbours (both old and new) or the builders/new business in the building grabbed our mail by mistake and returned it at some later point. Not sure we can prove this happened.

Food for thought.

Thanks so much everyone!

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: July 13, 2024, 03:15:46 pm »
The comment about a guilty plea potentially being tantamount to perverting the course of justice came from a previous poster. I probably misunderstood but basically trying to enter mitigating factors in the hopes of the court converting a guilty plea to not guilty could be viewed as an attempt to pervert the course of justice.

So a guilty plea should be made without further comment to eliminate this risk

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: July 13, 2024, 03:11:36 pm »
Husband is facing a criminal record over this. I know he is free to enter either plea, but with this much hanging in the balance I am just trying to find the best course of action.

This could ruin so much for us. I think he even risks being fired from his job should this happen, I know nobody cares and we have no way of proving we didn’t receive these letters but we genuinely didn’t.

This is a life changing event and
 I am devastated.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: July 13, 2024, 11:12:09 am »
@andy_foster Thank you again for taking the time to respond. Of course you are not responsible for my level of understanding - I am not an educated person - and I did not mean to criticise or offend you in any way. This is new to me and as you kindly took the time to respond to my initial question I thought you wouldn’t mind a follow up question.

Based on what you write it is my understanding that the only risk free option for us is to plead not guilty and go to court, as pleading guilty could be seen as perverting the court of justice, which sounds like it would lead to an even worse outcome.




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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: July 13, 2024, 11:02:53 am »
We returned the form asap nominating me

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: July 12, 2024, 05:13:05 pm »
Gosh so would both my husband and I get points? Me 3 points for the speeding and husband 6 points for not responding to a letter (which we had no chance to respond any earlier to)

This is really harsh I have to say. We did the absolute best we could under the circumstances and the thought of our cost of living increasing further is too much to bear. Plus the fine. I’m going to be sick


More to the point I’m struggling to understand your advice. We should not plead guilty, as that would be seen as perverting the course of justice? I thought the courts hated it when people plead not guilty as in their eyes he most definitely is: as far as they are concerned they sent this out on time and we didn’t respond.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: July 12, 2024, 04:32:43 pm »
Thanks for your reply. It’s the only offence (failure to give info relating to the identification of the driver - I assume that’s the s. 172)

I understand that the court won’t dismiss the case. At this point I’m trying to educate myself on whether pleading guilty but asking them to consider the circumstances is better than pleading not guilty (as we did reply and give the info to the police who acknowledged receipt)

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: July 12, 2024, 02:10:55 pm »
I’m hoping that the fact that we replied as soon as we had the fine will be in our favour, illustrating that we had zero intent of evading this matter.

And also that there is some history of mail going missing.

I won’t bore any readers with further details but our neighbours in the other flat in the building moved out around that time, and they sent someone (their cleaner I believe) around to collect their mail. At least once one of our letters seemed to have been opened by mistake as it was sellotaped and also late so I’m guessing maybe they accidentally took it with them. Who knows if the same could have happened with this letter, I can never prove that but it’s one of my theories

Any advice would be much appreciated.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Letter from court - never received speeding ticket
« on: July 12, 2024, 02:05:58 pm »
We have a letter from the court re failure to provide information re speeding but we received the initial speeding fine late. We immediately replied, nominating the driver (me, husband is RK) only to receive a letter from the police saying we were too late and that my husband will have to appear in court now.

This is an honest mistake and we want the court to throw this case out! Fully prepared to take the consequences of the speeding fine (I realise this is a separate matter to the offence of not answering their letters). What risks are attached to disputing this please? Details (long…) below.

Our address is difficult to find. It is off a main road in a square but the address is the main road despite our house being on a square with a different name. Our address is something like Main Road 10-12, flat 2. But in reality the house is on Square X. To confuse things further, there is a Main Road 10 and also a Main Road 12 which are a bit further down the road. We frequently get the neighbours mail and vice versa. I can prove this to some extent (complaints re non delivery of items & subsequent refunds etc). At the time of the speeding offence there were also works going on at a commercial address in our building, with a separate entrance on the main road. Some of the new businesses deliveries were mistakenly left with us during this time. I don’t know if the reverse also happened as there were only various workmen coming and going at the time, no sign of the business owner.

This happens all the time. I can never order anything online without following up with instructions on how to find us or I never receive anything. Obviously the postman is much more reliable than the couriers but nobody is 100% perfect.


 

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