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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 06, 2024, 03:57:02 pm »
Thanks a lot for your help and for clarifying the rules!
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 06, 2024, 12:43:20 pm »
Thank you for the clarifications. It seems like a minefield - clearly the councils are not incentivised on making this simple. I wonder why we don't have a parking ombudsman who can keep the councils in control!
@HCAndersen do you mean the two bays next to the single yellow?
@HCAndersen do you mean the two bays next to the single yellow?
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 05, 2024, 09:13:19 pm »
I was just going through the manual, and came across point 14.1.6 below
"Where the parking bays operate for a shorter period than the
CPZ (e.g. the CPZ operates from 8 am to 6 pm, and the parking bays from 10 am to 4 pm), the
upright sign should indicate both the parking controls and the waiting restrictions, together with
any loading prohibition. This is because the waiting restrictions are different from those shown
on the entry sign, i.e. they do not apply when the parking bay is operational. The sign also
ensures that drivers are aware of all the restrictions."
If I understand this correctly, does it not mean that the sign on the parking restriction which runs from 9am, should also indicate the waiting restrictions of the CPZ (starting from 8am) on it? It probably doesn't change the PCN appeal decision and in any case I have paid the fine now, so it's more of an academic question at this point.
"Where the parking bays operate for a shorter period than the
CPZ (e.g. the CPZ operates from 8 am to 6 pm, and the parking bays from 10 am to 4 pm), the
upright sign should indicate both the parking controls and the waiting restrictions, together with
any loading prohibition. This is because the waiting restrictions are different from those shown
on the entry sign, i.e. they do not apply when the parking bay is operational. The sign also
ensures that drivers are aware of all the restrictions."
If I understand this correctly, does it not mean that the sign on the parking restriction which runs from 9am, should also indicate the waiting restrictions of the CPZ (starting from 8am) on it? It probably doesn't change the PCN appeal decision and in any case I have paid the fine now, so it's more of an academic question at this point.
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 05, 2024, 08:58:05 pm »
Thank you, that is very helpful and much clearer regarding a CPZ. Also thank you for the link, it will be good bedtime reading 
And one last question on this - if I want to park on a yellow line where there is no yellow board, then is the only option to go back to the beginning of the road to look for the large sign at the entrance of the road for the CPZ?
To give an example from the local area, the adjoining road (The Ridgeway) has several yellow lines without any restriction signage (one location shown on google map link below). How would I know what the parking restriction for that line is?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Hodford+Rd,+London/@51.5707922,-0.1991731,3a,75y,27.11h,83.14t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sznjUEVG4UVuW_bKE-nAiSA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DznjUEVG4UVuW_bKE-nAiSA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D27.114677125094495%26pitch%3D6.855368438480127%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192!4m7!3m6!1s0x4876109ae1114399:0x6e271fa9ffb5456b!8m2!3d51.5690749!4d-0.198951!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F1tdx_cgs?coh=205410&entry=ttu
And one last question on this - if I want to park on a yellow line where there is no yellow board, then is the only option to go back to the beginning of the road to look for the large sign at the entrance of the road for the CPZ?
To give an example from the local area, the adjoining road (The Ridgeway) has several yellow lines without any restriction signage (one location shown on google map link below). How would I know what the parking restriction for that line is?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Hodford+Rd,+London/@51.5707922,-0.1991731,3a,75y,27.11h,83.14t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sznjUEVG4UVuW_bKE-nAiSA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DznjUEVG4UVuW_bKE-nAiSA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D27.114677125094495%26pitch%3D6.855368438480127%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192!4m7!3m6!1s0x4876109ae1114399:0x6e271fa9ffb5456b!8m2!3d51.5690749!4d-0.198951!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F1tdx_cgs?coh=205410&entry=ttu
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 05, 2024, 06:38:59 pm »
Thank you both for your help on this topic - really appreciate it!
It is indeed correct that I did not see the line (which I admit is my mistake) and paid for parking as per the board closest to the car. Having read the replies I will swallow my ego and pay the fine given the low probability of winning and the ability to pay the lower rate till tonight.
As a separate point, it has also helped me realise that I did not know the rules correctly which I suppose is the silver lining in this whole situation. I did want to check one more thing to ensure I fully understand the rules. The Barnet council on the website says the following regarding CPZs:
"Yellow lines prohibit waiting either:
- on the days and hours shown on nearby signs
- if there are no signs, on the days and hours shown on the large signs at the entry points to a CPZ
- at all times for double yellow lines"
In this instance given that there are 2 parking signs near the yellow lines on either side, do these signs not count as 'nearby signs' mentioned in bullet 1 above? And if it does, then how are drivers meant to understand which of the 2 signs is the correct restriction for the CPZ?
It is indeed correct that I did not see the line (which I admit is my mistake) and paid for parking as per the board closest to the car. Having read the replies I will swallow my ego and pay the fine given the low probability of winning and the ability to pay the lower rate till tonight.
As a separate point, it has also helped me realise that I did not know the rules correctly which I suppose is the silver lining in this whole situation. I did want to check one more thing to ensure I fully understand the rules. The Barnet council on the website says the following regarding CPZs:
"Yellow lines prohibit waiting either:
- on the days and hours shown on nearby signs
- if there are no signs, on the days and hours shown on the large signs at the entry points to a CPZ
- at all times for double yellow lines"
In this instance given that there are 2 parking signs near the yellow lines on either side, do these signs not count as 'nearby signs' mentioned in bullet 1 above? And if it does, then how are drivers meant to understand which of the 2 signs is the correct restriction for the CPZ?
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 05, 2024, 03:26:35 pm »
I've re-visited the site and taken a few photographs of the single yellow line in questions
The 1st photo shows the length of the single yellow line
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FmE9wdrzIgnyneI1sKPXAi0Spwg0JoIi/view?usp=drive_link
The next two show the parking bays on either side
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V9LSI9WYq8MbTJyRYfj4gJJtMWOhRgG1/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HgK1iGyjBztS77MfYtu0nGYk22Zvk86z/view?usp=drive_link
They look pretty faded on both sides - if someone was to park right over the yellow line like in my case, then it could be mistaken for one continuous parking bay.
I also emailed mrmustard - thank you for the tip.
I have decided to wait for the NTO and appeal - it just feels like the right thing to do.
The 1st photo shows the length of the single yellow line
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FmE9wdrzIgnyneI1sKPXAi0Spwg0JoIi/view?usp=drive_link
The next two show the parking bays on either side
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V9LSI9WYq8MbTJyRYfj4gJJtMWOhRgG1/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HgK1iGyjBztS77MfYtu0nGYk22Zvk86z/view?usp=drive_link
They look pretty faded on both sides - if someone was to park right over the yellow line like in my case, then it could be mistaken for one continuous parking bay.
I also emailed mrmustard - thank you for the tip.
I have decided to wait for the NTO and appeal - it just feels like the right thing to do.
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 03, 2024, 12:21:49 pm »
Thanks for your help!
In this case, it was a genuine case of not seeing the lines and paying for what I thought was applicable rather than trying to dodge the fare. Which makes the fine even more annoying.
Will wait to hear from others over this weekend before taking a call on whether to pay the fine at the reduced rate.
In this case, it was a genuine case of not seeing the lines and paying for what I thought was applicable rather than trying to dodge the fare. Which makes the fine even more annoying.
Will wait to hear from others over this weekend before taking a call on whether to pay the fine at the reduced rate.
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 03, 2024, 11:33:37 am »
Thanks for clarifying - definitely saved me some future tickets!
I have posted the pics below.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JnI1vIQDM89V-V2PYukVJb8Gi8idIH-j/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H5FrQXRpov4PsNoZTBA3HMXc4L2aetCk/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FNfcDOSPoleELKdyWTATrl4Px362XDqm/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qM6yx-jYyYw1QnlmY2jJxB24EUb-hDbF/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fIZeOLu_U-diocdsOP_WodosbaxO1WX8/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R02MI4I3wp2ypa7Dz4C1o5yzIRo2ssqj/view?usp=drive_link
Please let me know what you think.
I have posted the pics below.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JnI1vIQDM89V-V2PYukVJb8Gi8idIH-j/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H5FrQXRpov4PsNoZTBA3HMXc4L2aetCk/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FNfcDOSPoleELKdyWTATrl4Px362XDqm/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qM6yx-jYyYw1QnlmY2jJxB24EUb-hDbF/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fIZeOLu_U-diocdsOP_WodosbaxO1WX8/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R02MI4I3wp2ypa7Dz4C1o5yzIRo2ssqj/view?usp=drive_link
Please let me know what you think.
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 03, 2024, 08:32:39 am »
Thanks for the quick reply.
I didn't even know that there are separate signs at the entrance of the road! I always thought that the yellow line restrictions were determined by the restrictions on the adjacent parking bays.
Do you want me to post the pictures from the council?
I didn't even know that there are separate signs at the entrance of the road! I always thought that the yellow line restrictions were determined by the restrictions on the adjacent parking bays.
Do you want me to post the pictures from the council?
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / PCN: Barnet, code 01 Parking in restricted street, Hodford Road
« on: August 02, 2024, 06:32:07 pm »
I received a PCN on 28/06 (Friday) for parking in a single yellow line during restricted hours.
I have attached a photo of the location of the PCN on google maps (https://maps.app.goo.gl/PesfwLY4B5DAknty9). As can be seen from the image, the road has 2 different parking bays separated by a short single yellow line. The parking restrictions on the 2 bays are different from each other - on Fridays one of them is from 9am to 5:30pm and the other is from 8am to 6:30pm.
I had parked over the yellow line, with one wheel in each parking bay as can be seen from the photo on the PCN. Unfortunately I did not realise that there was a yellow line at all, so I paid for the parking as if I had parked in a bay (photo also attached). What is not visible in the PCN photos but can be inferred from the location of the car across single yellow line is that the sign for the parking restriction from 9am to 5:30pm was right next to the bonnet of the car, whereas the sign for the restriction from 8am to 6:30pm was further back.
The PCN was served at 8:40am, which is the restriction for the yellow line as per the council. The sign for this restriction is to the right of the yellow line. However if we take the parking sign to the left of the yellow line, the restriction should only start from 9am. This sign is also much closer to the yellow line compared to the other parking sign which has the restrictions starting from 8am.
I challenged the PCN based on the fact that the parking sign next to the car should have been applicable and that the PCN was issued incorrectly due to the fact that it was issued before the parking restrictions started from 9am as per that sign. However, this was turned down by the council. In my challenge I also mentioned paying for parking from 9 to 9:15am (owing from the fact that I did not see the the yellow line at all) - on second thoughts I don't think this is relevant and probably confused the council as can be seen from their reply.
However given that the PCN was served at 8:40 am, I hope that I have still have a strong case. I have attached both my challenge and the council's reply.
I find this PCN extremely unfair as firstly the yellow line is extremely short and is easy to miss. And when we look at the yellow line, it is not clear which of the 2 parking restrictions should apply. And depending on where the car is parked, one can very easily only see one of the parking restrictions (like me).
My current plan is to wait for the NTO and challenge it. However the time period for the reduced payment ends on 05.08, so I wanted to get some advice on whether that is a sensible plan and whether I have any chances of winning the challenge.
I would be grateful for any help and advice from this forum.
PCN: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y8kz7_ibgcsN9Q9IhCTXmUOFsa_6ZHxl/view?usp=drive_link
PCN challenge: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u5F-s_7v42IUCKUfE9IjL5KmyQHDOEnr/view?usp=drive_link
PCN challenge evidence 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wGmRiFMmPoRowXvSyNDxw0_UOnOLSLKi/view?usp=drive_link
PCN challenge evidence 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M0iRiwAxB8_TxgpFLqOd0rQpdEfMhz2e/view?usp=drive_link
Council reply:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y99NkS5NjpSUt9Hh4i_u0t6Qz0GzATmn/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y0WYt5KyvW1YH0P1E8ZsVGVGdtqq_zfR/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y-Qtnzs4vu7J8Lehbc_lptD1pcLkeyLq/view?usp=drive_link
Also re-confirming the location on google maps
https://maps.app.goo.gl/PesfwLY4B5DAknty9
I have attached a photo of the location of the PCN on google maps (https://maps.app.goo.gl/PesfwLY4B5DAknty9). As can be seen from the image, the road has 2 different parking bays separated by a short single yellow line. The parking restrictions on the 2 bays are different from each other - on Fridays one of them is from 9am to 5:30pm and the other is from 8am to 6:30pm.
I had parked over the yellow line, with one wheel in each parking bay as can be seen from the photo on the PCN. Unfortunately I did not realise that there was a yellow line at all, so I paid for the parking as if I had parked in a bay (photo also attached). What is not visible in the PCN photos but can be inferred from the location of the car across single yellow line is that the sign for the parking restriction from 9am to 5:30pm was right next to the bonnet of the car, whereas the sign for the restriction from 8am to 6:30pm was further back.
The PCN was served at 8:40am, which is the restriction for the yellow line as per the council. The sign for this restriction is to the right of the yellow line. However if we take the parking sign to the left of the yellow line, the restriction should only start from 9am. This sign is also much closer to the yellow line compared to the other parking sign which has the restrictions starting from 8am.
I challenged the PCN based on the fact that the parking sign next to the car should have been applicable and that the PCN was issued incorrectly due to the fact that it was issued before the parking restrictions started from 9am as per that sign. However, this was turned down by the council. In my challenge I also mentioned paying for parking from 9 to 9:15am (owing from the fact that I did not see the the yellow line at all) - on second thoughts I don't think this is relevant and probably confused the council as can be seen from their reply.
However given that the PCN was served at 8:40 am, I hope that I have still have a strong case. I have attached both my challenge and the council's reply.
I find this PCN extremely unfair as firstly the yellow line is extremely short and is easy to miss. And when we look at the yellow line, it is not clear which of the 2 parking restrictions should apply. And depending on where the car is parked, one can very easily only see one of the parking restrictions (like me).
My current plan is to wait for the NTO and challenge it. However the time period for the reduced payment ends on 05.08, so I wanted to get some advice on whether that is a sensible plan and whether I have any chances of winning the challenge.
I would be grateful for any help and advice from this forum.
PCN: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y8kz7_ibgcsN9Q9IhCTXmUOFsa_6ZHxl/view?usp=drive_link
PCN challenge: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u5F-s_7v42IUCKUfE9IjL5KmyQHDOEnr/view?usp=drive_link
PCN challenge evidence 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wGmRiFMmPoRowXvSyNDxw0_UOnOLSLKi/view?usp=drive_link
PCN challenge evidence 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M0iRiwAxB8_TxgpFLqOd0rQpdEfMhz2e/view?usp=drive_link
Council reply:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y99NkS5NjpSUt9Hh4i_u0t6Qz0GzATmn/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y0WYt5KyvW1YH0P1E8ZsVGVGdtqq_zfR/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y-Qtnzs4vu7J8Lehbc_lptD1pcLkeyLq/view?usp=drive_link
Also re-confirming the location on google maps
https://maps.app.goo.gl/PesfwLY4B5DAknty9
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