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Messages - EyeZyer

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP x 3 - New 'Speed on Green' install + limit reduction 40>30 - Insufficient Signage for speed Reduction
« on: July 11, 2024, 03:29:34 pm »
Hiya all,

The Rookie and sparky - thank you for your responses.

In the cold light of day, it does actually look like I am a complete bell-end and have been driving 40 in a 30 for some time... habitually when I've drove it, it was always 40,  so.. meh.. its a 40 😬 (that's my mind overruling reason, which clearly it shouldn't be allowed to, as that was got me f**ked in the first place)

I know that is the worst excuse (it's always been a 40...), but.. I was a petrolhead when I was younger, my 1st car was a Volkswagen Scirocco 1.8 16v GTII 130 hp, my second car was a 230 hp Toyota Supra 3.0l Turbo, my GSXR750 did 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and I topped it out at 170 Mph on the M58 motorway (I'm not proud!)...  so I did all of the speed....

Then, 24 years ago... my son was born, I became an adult, and I started to drive like I was delivering milk, in an electric float... (you have to be of a certain age to understand...)

So... In my 28 years of driving (even with the crazy rear wheel drive Toyota's), I have never had any driving offence, no points, nothing... so wind forwards 20+ years, I am an older man,I drive a Volvo diesel (safest cars on the road!!), and drive like I am driving Miss Daisy... (again, you have to be of a certain age...)

I go and completely bollox it up,  getting 3 fines consecutively....

I'm just probably pissed off and looking to point blame... I really did think I was a safe driver..?

Anyways... I'll take a proper look at what you have sent over (just in case I'm not a complete bell-end!), and will feed back as I think there are 30 signs on some of the tributary roads off this stretch of the A59 suggesting to speed change, but I could just be chasing a complete figment of my imagination....

..and I thought I was an attentive driver...

Again, thank you so much for taking the time, if only to point out that I probably shouldn't be driving... 😂 

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP x 3 - New 'Speed on Green' install + limit reduction 40>30 - Insufficient Signage for speed Reduction
« on: July 11, 2024, 02:33:59 am »
Hi all - Again, thank you for your time and help.

I have uploaded a few images to my webspace. I can't work out how to add the videos yet, but I will. I have emailed Lancashire PAS as Rookie suggested to combine the offences - I await a response

https://www.thantheother.com/PAS/pas.html

The images (I hope) show the reduced visibility of the signs, and (hopefully) explain why I managed to miss them at night...

If I am being a complete idiot here, and I need new glasses... please let me know, as there is no use me convincing myself I have a case, if the rest of the world disagrees!

Thank you.

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP x 3 - New 'Speed on Green' install + limit reduction 40>30 - Insufficient Signage for speed Reduction
« on: July 08, 2024, 03:13:19 am »
Its not allowing me to attach images saying the storage is full...  :'(

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Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: NIP x 3 - New 'Speed on Green' install + limit reduction 40>30 - Insufficient Signage for speed Reduction
« on: July 08, 2024, 03:12:16 am »
So - Thank you for the responses, and apologies that I haven't come back sooner.

There was a question posted by 'Rookie' - about delay between receiving the 1st NIP and the 2nd two, it was only a few days, but the 5 days in between the first offence, and receiving the initial NIP was the nail in the coffin, as I received NIP2 and NIP3 on the 16th June (4 days after they were issued on the 12th June).


'Richard W' has asked about the speed limit and looking as though it was in place since Mar 23. The installation was approved in Mar 23, but the install and go-live were done much later. The speed limit was 40 Mph, up until around the 17th April 2024 when they were actually finished and the limits became live.

Another comment by 'Rookie' is where I want further advice. The 30 Mph limits for the stretch of the A59 covering the Highrove Park estate, and then became a 40 Mph just past the junction with the B5319, so having driven the road for many years, then not realising the uplift to 40Mph had been removed needs to be considered.

I have driven the route at night, as I am still stumped as to how I missed the signs (there are square red/white signs saying a new 30 Mph speed limit is in effect.  The attached pictures will show how that happened!  I have also found the .gov.uk publications in relation to the standards that should be followed when deploying signage -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-manual


Section 5.4 Mounting Signs  - states

5.4.1. Signs should be mounted such that the lower edge of the sign is generally between
900 mm and 1500 mm above the highest point of the adjacent carriageway. Signs mounted at the lower end of this range benefit from receiving the most illumination from vehicle headlamps, but they are also prone to soiling due to spray from passing vehicles. Mounting heights at the higher end of the range should be used where this or obscuration by other vehicles is likely
to be a problem. Speed limit signs and other safety-critical signs will not normally be mounted lower than 1500 mm above the carriageway.

These signs are mounted approximately 6 metres laterally from the road, and are over 3 metres in height. Most of them also have obstruction due to trees/foliage covering them. When driving at 30 Mph, I Have timed the window of visibility to be between 1 and 2 seconds before you drive past them).

[ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

So with such poor visibility due to foliage obstruction, low lighting due to it being night time, poor light reflection from the sign due to the distance and height it is set back from the carriageway, and a window of between 1 and 3 seconds for the driver to see the sign, this would explain why it was easy to miss.  There are a couple of other signs that aren't obstructed by foliage, but as they are mounted in the same way, they reflect very little light and therefore have reduced visibility.

I have also attached some images taken during the day, to illustrate that the signage on this road is atrocious due to foliage obstructing existing signs. Going back to the comment about missing the uplift from 30 Mph to 40 Mph just after the B5319. The image below is taken where that 40 Mph sign was originally located. There are 2 other signs hidden by leaves, so how would anyone notice the 40 Mph sign disappearing..?

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I hope the above helps. I have accepted being the driver, and hope to challenge them in court. I know My odds are low, at the end of the day I was speeding, but I genuinely didn't realise the limit had changed. Not because I wasn't paying attention, but at night because of where the signs are located they get very little light reflection (the images are taken using a new iPhone, which knows its at night/low light levels so will compensate and make the signs seem brighter than they are to the naked eye!), it also doesn't help that foliage obstructs 75% on the signs, meaning you have a couple of seconds of clear visibility before you drive past them.


I just hope what I believe to be a compelling argument is reflected by what the experts say (i.e. you guys!!)

Again, thank you all so much of taking the time to help me. I never under estimate the kindness of strangers, and that is clearly evident here as people are taking time to help someone they have never met, and probably won't ever meet.

so, thank you - EyeZyer

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Speeding and other criminal offences / NIP x 3 - New 'Speed on Green' install + limit reduction 40>30 - Insufficient Signage for speed Reduction
« on: July 02, 2024, 01:47:38 am »
Hello All,

My first time posting, as its my first time getting a speeding fine in 27 years of driving, sorry 3 speeding fines, in 4 days from the same 'Red Light, Speed on Green) camera installed around a month ago.

The road in question is,

A59 County Road, Ormskirk between the junctions of (A570 Southport Road, Halsall Lane, also know as the 5-ways), and the junction onto the housing estate, and road of the same name 'High Grove Park'.

The A59 passes through Ormskirk and out towards Liverpool and has had a 40Mph speed limit, for as long as I can remember, I have lived in the area for the last 14 years

The A59 heading west to Burscough changed up to national speed limit approximately 500m from the junction with the B5319 (Burscough Road). The new housing estate 'High Grove Park' build started around 5 Years ago, and the limit was dropped from 40mph to 30mph for the section of the A59 between the B5319 and the nation speed limit just mentioned (heading towards Burscough)

Last month the 'safety' cameras were installed on the 5-ways junction, and on the A59 junction with Green Lane and Hayfield Road.  I have know found out that this also included a reduction from 40mph to 30mph.

My comment about insufficient signage relates to the fact that the original 40Mph speed change sign has been moved from just after the junction with the B5319 (heading east into Ormskirk) to the other side of the new 'safety lights', so any driver who was a regular user of this road (and I was) is unlikely to notice the moved 40Mph sign and will continue as normal at what was the 40Mph limit.

Have been unlucky to have done this 3 times before the first NIP letter came through, and I drove down there to take a look.

Whilst I realise from the laws perspective, speeding is an absolute crime, either you were speeding or your weren't. I was doing 37mph, 41mph and 41mph, so according to the 40mph limit I was compliant....

What hope do I have of contesting this as I drive around 500 miles a week getting to and from work, and I'm guessing my insurance will go sky high... Fuel is a big enough cost, I can't also an afford a hike in my insurance, but feel really disgruntled as there just isn't enough signs to highlight the speed change.

Also, I had already accepted the 1st NIP as there was a delay in getting the others, can I also contest that one now too?

One last thing, is there any 'freedom of information request' for me to see how many people this has caught out in the 5 weeks they have been active? I know lots of people in the area, and already 3 people have also said they have been fined, so I can't be just me, and feel's like the 'tip of the iceberg' scenario...

Any advice appreciated.  Thank you

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