Show Posts - nathanielclyne

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply. I assumed the solicitors advice may have some merit as doing research I noted the 'putting the prosecution to proof' notion mentioned online also:https://www.justanswer.co.uk/traffic-law/nklal-jo-just-received-note-intented-prosecution.htmlAlthough she does caveat:'This is obviously a high risk course of action that should only be pursued if the sky is going to fall if you plead guilty.The chances are they will prove it. However, they are wholly disorganised so you may be lucky.'https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=15322I did note this thread also mentions the 'bargaining with CPS' approach:'Once in court you can start bargaining with CPS. Their sole aim is to get a conviction for their stats, no interest in what speed you really or are charged with. Court papers are usually allocated shortly before court, literally, so not really worth writing in. When you turn up for the pleading diet, CPS solicitor will be looking to settle as many cases as possible as quickly as possible, so will consider offers then. Usually reluctant or refuse to haggle/bargain with punters, but never a problem where a solicitor is employed. Logic being if you are willing to employ a solicitor, you could well be willing to plead not guilty and go to trial. That takes up time and effort and a win is not guaranteed, CPS could screw up, police witness on holiday, one of the cops put their foot in it. Why should they take the risk ? If you appear without a lawyer, you're seen as a chancer. You'll either plead guilty to whatever's thrown at you, or take it to trial and shoot yourself in the foot.'However admittedly the post is somewhat dated. With the exception of the witness statement stating the Section 172 Notice was served one day after it actually was and the clerical error stating my car reg when referencing my driving license number on the traffic report, I can't see much else as the NIP was issued within 14 days.Thanks again.

Dear New Judge, Many thanks for your detailed response. Indeed the NIP was served within 14 days. The SJPN does not have a specific page titled IDPC however I have attached the Police Report Pages which I presume are the same thing. I did note when stating my driving license number there is administrative error whereby my Car registration is listed instead, and is listed as 'foreign DL' although I have a full UK license - I presume a small clerical error as such however would not amount to defence. I accept I am likely in hope a small procedural fault or similar disclosure failure / the case being discontinued for some other reason. I was advised by one solicitor that my options would be to Plead not guilty and check the evidence which carries no guarantees, although case can be won if the evidence is incorrect.I was advised there may be practical problems when prosecuting lower priority cases with Evidence often missing/incomplete and many cases resolved before court. If all the evidence ‘checks out’, consider offering a guilty plea to a lower speed (e.g. 90mph) ( apparently this depends upon the prosecutor in court and whether they’re willing to accept the reduced speed, but in his experience, most are, as it brings the case to an end quickly and with minimum cost/effort and is then more likely the magistrates will impose a conditional discharge (due to the lower speed).It was my understanding conditional and absolute discharges followed findings of guilt but did not constitute criminal convictions per se thus did not need to be disclosed as such (my main aim). I do realise I am in an unenviable position with a strict time deadline and appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Dear The RookieThank you for taking the time to reply. Indeed at this stage it is mainly a hope for prosecution error, albeit unlikely. I have been through many employment applications recently in a competitive field and in hindsight they all asked the question 'Have you been convicted of an offence of any nature' - as I understand the usual FPN 3 points can be truly ignored whereas the court fines constitute convictions as there is admission/ finding of guilt and cannot be excluded. (Even on flight incoming passenger cards the question is 'Do you have any criminal convictions?')I did consider wondering whether I could mitigate and ( 0 points, clean license, empty motorway, good driving conditions) and ask for 'conditional discharge' whilst still imposing the relevant points and fine etc as it really is just the semantics of a formal criminal conviction I am trying to avoid - although I realise this is unlikely at this stage!The SJPN has a police report with offence wording - on x date a motor vehicle on a motorway travelling at a speed of 96mph at a speed exceeding 70mph contrary to regulation 3 of the Motorways Traffic Regulations 1974..There is then a witness statement from an evidence assessor stating that they are employed as such by Central Ticket Office. Their duties include the checking and collation of documents sent out by GMP CTO and their production as business records for court proceedings.They go on to say a prescribed device of a type approved by the Secretary of State was placed at said MotorwayAt said date and time  a vehicle with my reg number caused the device to be activated speeding at 96mph in a 70mph speed zone.This offence detection was processed within the CTO under file reference number.....A successful login to PAS system was made, this system allows access to information regarding the alleged offence.e. photographic evidence, camera calibration certificates answers to FAQ's and on line driver admissions and nominations can be made.Driver admission was submitted and all required data fields completed. Application is made to the court to grant a direction for the prosecution witness to give live evidence over a live CVP link. Again thank you to everyone who has taken the time to reply thus far.

I presume the attached certificate of calibration is genuine.I did consider wondering whether I could mitigate and ( 0 points, clean license, empty motorway, good driving conditions) and ask for 'conditional discharge' whilst still imposing the relevant points and fine etc as it really is just the semantics of a formal criminal conviction I am trying to avoid - although I realise this is unlikely at this stage!

Southpaw82Thanks for your reply above. I have received the 3 photographs from the camera device on the admit to being the driver website and the certificate above. On the SJPN there is also a witness statement from the Central Ticket Office 'evidence assessor'. This states the device was home office approved and triggered by my vehicle and asks for permission for them to give evidence via live CVP link. I am not sure which cases are more likely to have disclosure deadlines missed - I presumed this was more likely due to stretched nature of the police force and resultant delays in handing over files to the CPS as opposed to a function of how complicated the case was, however, I am well aware my case is fairly straight-forward for any prosecutor. I did briefly consider appealing to the CPS on the basis of the 'public interest' part of their 2-stage test - essentially reiterating what I had initially represented to the police: alternative out-of-court disposals were available enabling an equivocal if not greater penalty whilst safegaurding public interests and sparing cost to the wider criminal justice system. Also mentioning My licence is clean despite driving for over a decade and other mitigating factors including empty motorway, first thing in the morning with excellent driving conditions etc. However, I am sure they would not discontinue on these grounds and this would essentially end any 'not guilty' plea. Thanks again for taking the time to read and reply.

The PDF attached is available on the 'identify driver' website : [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Southpaw82 Thanks for your reply above. I was caught by HADECS 3 camera device. A 'Certificate of Compliance' was available on the 'admit to driving website'. I realise I am not in an enviable position and indeed the loss of credit for an early guilty plea. I have heard on the off chance, occasionally due to disorganisation etc, the crown can sometimes fail to meet disclosure deadlines, or cases be discontinued for other reasons, indeed including a camera operator not attending the trial, so just wanted to explore any small avenue that may remain. Thanks again.

Dear All, Hope you are well. Would be really grateful for your advice:NIP for 96 in a 70 motorway (silly of me and lesson well and truely learnt)I really wanted to resolve this without a formal court conviction. Mainly as a court convictions become formal criminal convictions requiring disclosure as opposed to FPN's which are not 'convictions' per se and never have to be mentioned on any form ( be that VISA's jobs etc - I am aware speeding on it own is non-recordable but if asked motoring offences are not specifically excluded this will require disclosure). Ive had a clean license for 10 years. I thereby (perhaps unwittingly!) contacted the police asking whether the matter could be dealt with via FPN instead of via a court route. They very sternly declined. I should mention I made more than one representation.My question is, I fully realise I have very few options left now in not getting a formal court conviction, as I've been given an SJPN with only a couple of days left to reply.Im aware I do not have a factual defence but was essentially just hoping to put the prosecution to proof following a not guilty plea ( as per my legal rights) as I have nil to lose. I know certain disclosure requirements are not always met, which can result in favourable outcomes. I appreciate this is a niche question but was wondering if anyone had taken this approach before and how to go about it? What disclosure do you usually ask for and at what time during the process?I have approached many driving solicitors but not located one I feel comfortable with in offering assistance. Thank you all in advance!