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Messages - ChocolateGinger

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1
Thank you so much for this strong reply.
Sadly, the driver has never appealed and I've just learnt paid the fine.
I suppose nothing can be done. I thank you again for your kind assistance.

2
Dear all,
We've received a fine for £80 dated 21st August with 28 days to pay. By my calculation, today is the last day to submit an appeal?
The driver didn't know there's a prohibition there, didn't see it and drove through.
50L Prohibited Turn. No Left Turn - Emu Rd Junction Prairie Street Wandsworth Council
Please see attached.
Can you help us find a way out please?

I seem to be unable to post the photos of the PCN. No where to attach so I've uploaded them to this long. https://imgur.com/a/F4kPj88 Thank you.

3
Thank you MrMustard. If I had been in touch even as last as night perhaps.
There was no way you could have and that's my fault.
Thank you once again.

4
Thank you so much. I have been unwell and going away for a couple of months for medical treatment so I was trying to get my hearing before I leave next week.
I'd emailed and called them and they said they'll revert but didn't. I chased again today and signed on just in case and behold the adjudicator showed up. I explained that the contravention alleges an off street Contravention so it needed terms and conditions of the off street parking places order to users of the car park. He insisted that the sign showed the permit numbers that are allowed and I'd confirmed it was my car and I'd received the PCN. I called his attention to the Order for the estate and showed him the map at page 89. He insisted that I was parked at Nelson Estate. I said yes but on Bronti close which is on street according to the order.
He said he'll look at it later and if there's anything else.

As Hippocrates thankfully pointed out, I said the Council's statement that the fine will increase if I didn't pay is as threat while proceedings are ongoing. He said he'll check the website before he makes his decision. We've just finished so I'm waiting.

5
The letter says if I can't attend they'll go ahead in my absence. I'll ring them  as suggested. Thank you.

I've not sent anything else apart from what I sent to them before this letter.
The letter doesn't state that I should or could send anything further. It does say the authority will provide their response before the hearing.

6
Hello everyone,
My hearing will be in about 2 weeks. Please see attached.

I will have to email them to conduct it over the phone as I have a long awaited consultant appointment ending about the time the hearing will start so I won't be able to arrive in time.
Is this advisable or I should pursue some other options?
Also, do I need to submit anything for this hearing or what I've sent in already is sufficient?
Please help, how do I win this?

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

7
Please see attached the Council's reply.
They've rejected my appeal.
Their only response to the substantive point is that Bronti Close falls under Nelson Estate but nothing in response to the fact that the Estates Map shows it as on street parking.

I'm about to draft my appeal to the London Tribunals Environment and Traffic Adjudicators.
Should I simply use my previous appeal or I need to set it out differently or add other points?

Thank you for your time and considerations.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

8
Thank you HC A.
I shall use your draft in the main body of my representation.

9
I'm about to submit my representation to the Notice to owner.

I intend to tick the first option ie "The alleged contravention did not occur."
The 6th option "There has been a procedural impropriety on behalf of the authority" comes a close second.

I'll be grateful for your comments to my representation below.

I appeal this PCN on the grounds below.
I didn’t see the sign stating it was for permit holders only.
I drove down Wandsworth Place looking for parking. At the corner/the junction there was a big high white van coming out of Bronti Close and must have obscured the sign. The traders there use high vans so the Council would’ve been aware of this. The sign was small, mid height and only on one side ie the on-coming side blocked by the van.
So I did not see the sign as I turned right. I turned into the street and there was a parking spot on my side of the road, so I parked so the shop assistant could load the 20kg bag of rice and 15l of oil.
I challenge liability for this PCN on the grounds that the alleged contravention did not occur.
The PCN alleges an off-street contravention, Con 85 Off Street Car Park Contraventions. There is as a result, a requirement for the council to communicate the terms and conditions of parking created by the off-street parking places order to users of the car park.
As the location is off-street, the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 are irrelevant and are of no application. Ordinarily in an off-street car park there would be a tariff board outlining that the car park is subject to statutory parkings controls, listing the terms and conditions of parking, and stating that failure to comply with the requirements imposed by the parking places order might result in a penalty charge notice being served.
At this location there is no signage at all informing users that they are in an off-street car park, so there is nothing to advise motorists that this is an off-street car park subject to statutory controls, nor is there anything to inform users that the bay markings and signs are anything more than merely advisory.
I would suggest it is wholly improper for an authority to fail to convey the requirements of a parking places order or even tell motorists that the land in question is a designated off-street car park, and then say "Surprise! you have a statutory PCN!" when the motorist had no way of knowing there are any enforceable restrictions at all.
I had been given no information about the fact that this was an off-street car park, or that a parking places order imposed any restrictions, let alone what those restrictions might be.
In the circumstances the alleged contravention cannot have occurred, and the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

10
As far as I know, they must re-serve the Notice to Owner, the document you have not received.


Thank you.
is there a way to submit my representation whether or not I get the Notice to Owner?

11
I've received an order from the County Court revoking the order for recovery of the unpaid penalty charge and cancellation of the charge certificate.

It's dated 10th October.

It states that the LA?CA may still take further action and to contact them.

What do you advice I do next please?

On the Council's website it says the following:
The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £195.00 on Sat, 30 Nov 2024. Please pay £130.00 now.
You have already challenged this PCN and we replied on Thu, 23 May 2024. You cannot challenge twice.

Thank you.

13
Here are links to the Order for Recovery of Unpaid Penalty Charge.

https://ibb.co/4KWLLfb
https://ibb.co/5vLKQKR

Please help.

The four options on the TE3 are:

You paid the penalty charge notice in full. You must provide details of the date payment was made, the method of payment i.e. cash, cheque etc. and who the payment was made to. Please note you may be asked to provide proof of payment upon request.
 
• You did not receive the notice to owner/penalty charge notice.

• You made representations about the penalty charge to the Local Authority within 28 days service of the notice to owner/penalty charge notice and you did not receive a reply (rejection notice).

• You appealed against the Local Authority’s decision to reject your representation within 28 days service of the rejection notice, but you had no response to your appeal.

No.2 seems the closest to my situation.
I did not receive the NTO. I received the PCN which was on the car windscreen but when I appealed I was told to wait for the NTO? I didn't receive it so I couldn't make any representations.

Is ticking no 2, signing and emailing the correct procedure for this form if one didn't receive the NTO?

14
No I didn't get them.
Yes it is, I received it last week though I had been away for 3 weeks so it might have arrived few weeks ago.
I'm travelling today for 3 weeks and will appreciate confirmation whether or not what I'm proposing is the right.

Thank you.

15
Read through this thread carefully
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/

Any questions, please ask here.
Thanks. The relevant part of that thread simply gives instructions to tick option 2 and email the form which is what I'm asking if it's the right thing to do.
So I suppose the answer is yes, I should go with option 2.

Thanks again.

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