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Did it get cancelled?
MP's staff made sure to say they can't do this for every PCN or they wouldn't have time to deal with more important things..
Contravention 14 May
NOR 29 Aug, served 2 Sept.
OP, is this your vehicle or is it leased/hired?
It's my vehicle but just under a HP finance agreement.
OP, let's stay with terms which we know pl.
Who is the registered keeper?
Whatever the answer, then IMO the PCN is probably VOID. You need to deal with the PCN's validity before worrying about the contravention and detailed wording.
If you are the keeper then the PCN was served late.
If whoever else is the keeper, then IMO you cannot be held to be the owner because you have not indicated that the vehicle is subject to a hiring agreement of less than 6 months nor a lease.
MP's staff made sure to say they can't do this for every PCN or they wouldn't have time to deal with more important things..
May we see what you wrote in your reps, please. Also all sides of the original PCN (omly redact yr name & address - leave all else in).
Contravention 14 May
NOR 29 Aug, served 2 Sept.
OP, is this your vehicle or is it leased/hired?
They've got a cheek enforcing this with foliage blocking some of the view.
Their letter also contains some gibberish nonsense and something about a parking contravention presumably from another letter.
They don't reoffer the discount so you must pay or appeal to the tribunal and the latter is obvious.
I can't see you losing this.
There may also be something from our member Hippo.
OP, if this gets to court you would need evidence.
So you had 'about 4 parcels'.
OP, a judge would want to know how many because this is your defence i.e. that your time on site was properly and only spent delivering parcels in the course of your business or employment.
So not 'about' but 3,4,7 parcels - see attached worksheets.
These were delivered to X separate properties which necessitated Y trips.
The service standard is that the courier is required to carry the parcel to the property and not a central collection point. The location was a block of residences spread over N floors and Z rings must be given before looking for alternatives, sometimes specified by the recipient but often not, such as trying to find a neighbour.
OP, I could go on. But this is your defence and frankly if you cannot put these details together with evidence now then your chances won't improve over time.
I'm a courier and I refer you to Jopson v Homeguard won't win the day IMO.
"The only arguable point would seem to be an unlawful fettering of discretion"@nonPCNenjoyer the notice of rejection says they're unable to cancel, but that's not ture: they are able to cancel and they're require to decide whether to do so or not. A detailed explanation is given in Susan Cook v Trafford Borough Council (TR 05993K, 25 January 2013) but at London Tribunals it's a bit of a mixed bag:
What's this mean?
Nirakar Vaidya v London Borough of Newham (2130316200, 1 August 2013), won
Madeline Grace Dyett v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2130497615, 5 December 2013), won
Krzysztof Burger v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2190467973, 5 September 2019), lost
Simone Strauss v London Borough of Barnet (2130521902, 4 July 2013), won
Shaun Elliott v Royal Borough of Richmond upon Thames (2200264240, 24 August 2020), lost
Kuldip Gahir v London Borough of Redbridge (2230274618, 3 August 2023), lost
As you now have nothing to lose the argument should be made, you just need to decide whether you want to argue the appeal yourself or whether you'd like me to do this for you (in which case you need to act on the PM I sent you).
Desperate people, seems predatory to me man idk
OP, you have still not addressed the key issue which IMO is your only defence both now and ultimately in court: So i worked for amazon flex delivering parcels on this day,
While these matters are fresh in your mind...:
How many parcels of what size to how many residences on a site with, to be confirmed, a single car park and these residences were how many metres away from the car park and how does delivery take place e.g. to obtain a signature or leave at the front door or designated location etc. and was/were the resident(s) in/had they been pre-notified of delivery and how many return journeys did you make while stopped in the car park?
Others may have other questions.
IMO, unless you make a deliberate and accurate record now then in possibly several years' time a judge would be sceptical about your recollections because as far as we can see none of the necessary specifics has been put in evidence so far.
@nonPCNenjoyer well the penalty has now gone up to £130 so you should obviously appeal, as the penalty won't go up if you lose. I will drop you a PM if you would like to be represented. The only arguable point would seem to be an unlawful fettering of discretion, it's not much to go on but as you have nothing to lose it wouldn't make sense to give up and pay now.
QuoteSo this is the only letter I found that isn't the same as the others. I cannot find anymore at all.
Is not page 4 of 8 on the back of this (page 3 of 8)?
You have exhausted the appeals process. there is nothing more you can do, for now, unless you want to pay the charge. My advice is not to pay the charge and to wait and see if they decide to take you to court over the alleged debt.
What is going to happen and you need to be fully aware of this, is the storm of debt collector letters you are now likely to receive. You can safely ignore all debt collector letters. They may appear to be threatening and full of scary words like "bailiff" and "CCJ" but those are there solely to try and scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into capitulating and paying up, the now inflated charge.
The debt collectors cannot do anything. They cannot take you to court. They are a third party to the contract you allegedly breached with the PPC. They offer their service to the PPC on a no-win, no-fee basis. Ignore them.
If they intend to take this further, they will either themselves or through a roboclaim firm of solicitors, send you a Letter of Claim giving you 30 days to pay or face the prospect of a county court claim. After those 30 days, they are at liberty to issue a county court claim at any time up to 6 years after the date of the alleged contravention.
A court claim is what you want to get this over and done with. A judge is a truly independent arbiter and they will decide whether you owe the PPC a debt. A judge will take all the facts into account and if you can show that delivering packages is not parking, as was described in the persuasive appeal in Jopson v Homeguard mentioned earlier, as well as other legal arguments which will be advised if/when a claim is issued, then you have a very good prospect of winning.
Even if you were to lose, it is likely that you would pay less than the original claim amount as this is the small claims track and they are not allowed to add fake fees/damages and the costs are fixed. There is no chance of a CCJ even if you lose as long as it is paid within 30 days of judgment. That is a worst case scenario.
So, you now have to wait and see. Ignore any debt collector letters. Come back if/when you receive an LoC.
For what you have uploaded so far, it says page 1 of 8 and page 2 of 8. So there are 6 more pages. cp8759 has said not to include the tribunal pages which I think will probably be the last 4 pages. So what's inbetween? It may look like just standard wording to you, but the devil is in the detail and the guys on this website win so many cases on behalf of people based upon what is or is not included on those pages. The more you share, the better.
I don't understand what more you want can you give an example? the letters are all lost so I'd have to find them now.@nonPCNenjoyer well the wording of the notice of rejection might open avenues of appeal, for instance this occurred in Commercial Plant Services Ltd v Transport for London (2240018512, 12 February 2024).
The problem is these issues are always case-specific, without seeing the actual notice of rejection that you received we have no way of knowing whether the council messed things up in your particular case. We therefore need all sides of all pages of your notice of rejection.
It is very important with these things to keep all the paperwork for exactly this sort of reason. I suggest you try and find the missing paperwork.
