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Messages - poorthing

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1

Thanks HC Anderson and Stamford Man.  Have not yet sent so will expand / redraft and send.  Thanks a lot everyone.

2

Many thanks cp8759 for drafting and Stamford man.  Will keep you posted. Thanks.

3
Dear Wandsworth Council,

Re: Appeal for PCN WA

My appeal is focussed on the defaced signage of the signs where I parked.

I was visiting my elderly parents who live in Atkinson House and parked on Austin Road in front of Atkinson House and displayed the Housing parking permit provided to my parents for visitors to park. (See attached housing permit photograph).

As you can see from my attached photograph the pole (008) where I was parked the sign was defaced and not clearly visible.  I have also attached a copy of the adjoining pole (009) where the sign is also defaced.  I was therefore not aware that the housing permit could not be used where I had parked as both the signs on that side of Austin Road were defaced.

The evidence provided by Wandsworth Council traffic warden is that of a clear sign which is on another road round the corner of Austin Road (Astle Street) and not on Austin Road where I parked my car.  The pole photographed by the Traffic Warden is the pole on Astle street and is clearly numbered as 010.  If you zoom in on some of the evidence photographs provided by Wandsworth Council one can see the defaced signs in the distance.
 
The contravention therefore did not occur as the bay where the vehicle was parked was not properly signed. The signage in the bay I parked and the adjoining bay are defaced and has therefore makes it’s provisions illegible.  It is not clear or complaint and therefore in these circumstances no contravention occurred.

The onus is on the Council to ensure the sign is not defaced this is contained within regulation 18 of the ‘The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 –
Which states:
18.— (1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—
(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;
(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force; and
(c)in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.

In conclusion, The contravention did not occur.  The PCN is therefore invalid and should not have been issued due to the defaced signage.

Please cancel the PCN.

4
I will attach some photographs as evidence with all the pole numbers and a photo of the housing permit.  Do you think that would be okay?

5
Thanks this is what I have drafted, do you think its alright?  Thanks.

6
Hi,

I returned and clicked the photos requested of the signs adjacent to the one where I got a ticket.

I got the ticket at pole numbered 008 (as seen in previous uploaded picture).  The pole adjacent on Austin road on my side( numbered pole 009) the sign is also defaced. So both the signs are defaced on the side I parked on.  See attached photo link



However, on the opposite side of the road, there is a sign which is clear.  See attached:



The evidence the traffic warden provided is of the sign on the adjacent road  ( Astle road - pole 010)

There is a parking meter on the road about 10 meters from where I had parked, opposite the Battersea Fields Practice GP surgery.

Please let me know if there is any basis to appeal.  Thanks.



7
OP, look at the reverse of the permit and you should see its usage terms and conditions.

On the subject of signs, look at the authority's photo evidence. You'll see a traffic sign which is clear..

..but GSV shows it's clearly not yours or even the next one, but the next.

Why, I wonder?

Can your relatives take photos of these signs pl.


===========================================

@ H C Anderson - yes, The authority's evidence photo - is taken from ( Astle street).  I think because the sign where I parked was defaced the traffic warden never put a picture of the defaced sign, he went to the other end of road (Astle street) and took a picture of that sign which was nowhere near my car.  This was why I was hoping there was someway to appeal it.  Will have to visit on the weekend and take more photos of signs myself.

My thinking is that the parking ticket should correspond to the traffic sign that indicates the parking restriction.  As the sign is defaced/not clear - Could I not appeal on the basis that the sign is not in accordance with the Traffic Regulation Order and so the PCN is invalid? Also the authority's evidence of the sign is from (Astle Street), while the road stated on my PCN is Austin Road. The traffic warden intentionally did not take a photograph of the sign near my car as it was defaced.

8

Image of the conditions of the permit:



I accept that the car was parked in the wrong permit holder zone. 

However trying to see if it can be appealed on the basis of the defaced sign.

9
@ Incandescent - Can I ask please- does the parking permit specifically have to have the exact code displayed on the Parking sign.

The Housing permit (Photograph I posted) Just says battersea Park....does there have to be a code on the Housing  parking permit as you mentioned?

Thanks.

 

10

The parking for residents is around the block on Kennard street apparently.  I have just checked and those bays have a sign saying  permit Holders BP.




11
Yes, all the roads around have estates. 

12
Thank you for your reply. 

If I were to go ahead and challenge based on the defaced signage. Is there any traffic law/regulation as such I can quote to say that parking signs should be maintained by the Council so that signage is clear or something to that effect. 

13

Thanks for your reply.  Here is a snap of the Housing permit.




The traffic warden also has it in his photographic evidence on the Wandsworth Council PCN website.

I now understand that I should not have parked there.  But what i'm trying to ascertain is whether I can challenge the PCN given that the signage was defaced ?  Meaning is the PCN that wandsworth issued valid as the signage was defaced? 

14
Hi,
Hoping the experts in this forum can help me please.

I was visiting my very elderly in - laws at their Council flat which is on a housing estate in Battersea, Wandsworth.  They gave me a housing parking permit which was given to them by the Wandsworth Council for anyone visiting and needing to park the car, I displayed it in my car and parked on Austin road.  It was the first time I had used this Housing parking permit!

Came back to the car and noticed I was issued a PCN – Contravention 12 (see attached). What I didn’t realise was that the Housing parking permit I displayed in my car could only be used in a designated parking area behind the block of flats (there are 6-7 parking spots for visitors I believe).  Genuinely didn’t realise that the housing permit could not be used if parked on Austin Road ( i.e. in front of the block of flats where they live). 

Below are the PCN Images.





NOW, REGARDING THE ISSUED PCN:
It so happened that, I had parked my car right in front of a parking sign which was partly defaced.  This can be seen if you zoom in and look closely at the photographic evidence that the traffic warden has posted on Wandsworth site (there are two pictures where the defaced sign can be partially seen with the car in view).  https://parking.wandsworth.gov.uk/pcn/

The traffic warden has rather cunningly tried to avoid taking the picture so that the defaced sign is clearly visible.  In fact the traffic warden posted another individual photograph of a normal parking sign but this sign has been taken on the adjoining road around the corner (Astle Street). NOT where I had parked my car!

Also, on a separate note there is a number on the pole of the displayed parking sign (which the traffic warden took) which is 010 but where I parked my car the number on that pole is 008. ( can be partly seen in the council photographic evidence)

On the day I did take a picture with my car near the defaced traffic sign, but my number plate is not visible. Also have a picture with the defaced parking sign I took. (have attached both the pictures).






Are there any grounds to challenge this PCN – especially given that my number plate is not visible near the defaced sign?

Hoping someone can help.  Thanks.

15
Hi,

Many thanks cp8759 and Hippocrates ( for drafting) - London borough of hammersmith and Fulham cancelled the PCN. :)

Have attached a copy of the letter, after a whole explanation, there is one line saying they have cancelled it!

https://imgur.com/a/gznS8WN

Appreciate all your help.  Thanks once again.

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