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Messages - Snudge88

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
1
Sorry - a quick further question... What happens now?

A week has passed and I've not heard from anyone - HMCTS, BW Legal, or NTC.

I assume I'll get the judgment in the post. Does the 14 days I've been given to pay start from the date of the hearing, or the date that the judgment is issued?

Either way, is it now a case of me proactively contacting NTC to try and pay?

2
Is there any way of getting hold of the Judge's rationale in writing, or is this not applicable at this level?

3
Will I receive a written judgment?

4
That's a real shame, and quite a surpruise - you seem to have very much fallen foul of 'judge bingo' - there are some good ones and some crap ones.

The 'unreasonable conduct' premium is the real kicker.

I thought that the bar for this at Small Claims level is exceedingly high, and very much reserved for non-compliance with directions? I seem to have been deemed unreasonable for choosing to challenge the claim based on a fairly solid prior judgment?

5
Well that was a spectacular waste of time/money.

NTC's claim was allowed, along with their representation costs of £150 as the judge ruled me to have acted unreasonably.

Judge was completely dismissive and arrogant, and seemed to take extreme umbrage at my pointing out that BW Legal had served their bundle late and inccurately. It very much seemed that he'd already arrived at his decision before we even entered the room.

To summarise his points:

The photographs in the Witness Statement demonstrated a period of parking.

No evidence that Eden Moore had asserted conduct of litigation.

Claims that claim was inaccurately pleaded were simply incorrect.

Contract was formed as the documents and notice make it clear that the mere act of parking was acceptance of the terms.

PoFA fully complied with - simple breach of contract by parking where not entitled. Stationary vehicle with no driver was sufficient.

Brennan irrelevant and non-binding.

Valid contract with landowner.

My documents and evidence were entirely at odds with those provided by the claimant, and therefore no weight attached to them.

14 days now to pay £432.

6
Thanks all, for all your help so far.

A couple of quick questions on the morning of the hearing - more than appreciate if this is far too short notice for any substantive answers:

  • If Eden Moore does, in fact, turn up today; either as a witness or as BW Legal's representative, I assume that's an immediate point of order depending on her role?  I assume Right of Audience if she's there as representative, and the fact that their N180 stated no witnesses if she's there as witness?
  • BW Legal have raised the unreported appeal case of Premier Parking Solutions Ltd v Leigh Evans in support of their NTD/NTK, stating that it found boilerplate wording of "This charge relates to the period of parking that immediately preceded the issue of that notice."to be sufficient to satisfy PoFA regarding a period of parking.  I assume that my position here is that Brennan post-dates this, the claimant has not provided a transcript of the judgment, and that it would be unfair to allow a requirement for specific data to be satisfied by the inclusion of generic boilerplate?
  • We discuss the fact that the state of the site has changed materially, compared to the site plan and photographs provided alongside the contract with Orbit Homes.  These changes include the missing/illegible entry signs, as well as the addition of a very large sign (approx 14s into this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjsleI5ljhk) stating 'VISITOR PARKING'.  This will have added significant confusion to the situation and, in the absence of entry signs stating to the contrary, it would be reasonable for a driver to assume that the area was, indeed, visitor parking, and that the yellow enforcement signs merely stated the T&Cs upon which visitors could park.
  • Finally - just out of interest rather than anything else - if BW Legal do send local locum representation, would it be fair to assume that their costs in pursuing this matter would probably end up outweighing the £245 that they are seeking here?

7
Neither party should be ambushing the other with fresh evidence, and most judges would take a dim view of any attempts to do the same. You could if you wish contact BW Legal and point out that you have not received their bundle. Then at the hearing point out that you either haven't received it, or have received it late (if they do send it), putting you at a disadvantage. You can point this out alongside some of the other issues (such as the Mazur point and their late submission of a supplementary WS) as evidence of their ongoing poor conduct in the handling of the case - all of this is particularly important if you win and are discussing costs.

At risk of sounding vague, much depends on the view of the judge on the day, County Court can be unpredictable.

I think one of the key facts in your case is that you have a meritorious defence point, namely that the claimant hasn't proved that a contract was formed in the first place. Even if you leave aside all the (entirely valid) technical points, there can be no money owed if no contract was formed. I'd be keen to ensure that this point does not get lost amidst any protracted debates about any technicalities (after all, as noted, most judges want an easy life).

Thanks DWMB2, I appreciate the help here.

I emailed BW Legal, who responded with the Trial Bundle and a claim that this was sent to me on 29/12/2025.  I've asked them to forward to me the email they allege to have sent, so that I can see if they've mis-spelled my email address or suchlike.

I've immediately noted that the Trial Bundle they have prepared uses my pre-Mazur St Helens witness statement, and not the current one which includes a discussion of the Eden Moore issue.  I shall raise this at the outset tomorrow, to ensure that the Judge relies upon my up-to-date Witness Statement, unless you think that this needs anything else doing here and now.

The comment on the ordering and prominence of the points is appreciated as well.  By my understanding my hierarchy tomorrow should be:

1)  Eden Moore's witness statements are hearsay.  She is not the claimant and has no detailed knowledge of the site or matter, and is not present for cross-examination.  As such respectfully request that little or no weight should be given to her evidence.

2)  No proof of contract formed.  BW Legal unable to prove the existence of a suitable consideration period, alongside missing/illegible entry signs to the car park.

3)  Even if a contract was formed, the NTD and NTK do not comply with Schedule 4 PoFA 2012 in that they state a single point in time for the alleged contravention, rather than a period of parking.  This prevents Keeper Liability and, therefore, I cannot be held liable as keeper, have no obligation to name the driver, and have not done so.  Persuasive precedent being Brennan.

4)  Wholly inappropriate to make the assumption that Keeper was Driver, regardless of circumstances.  See Edward.

5)  Notwithstanding the above, poor conduct by BW Legal throughout, including but not limited to:
  • Failure to engage with questions following Notice of Claim
  • Woefully inadequate Particulars of Claim
  • Conduct of litigation by paralegal (See Mazur)
  • Late submission of supplementary Witness Statement following original St Helens deadline for service
  • Failure to serve me with a copy of the Trial Bundle by the stated deadline, or at all, depending on response to my email this afternoon

Thanks again!

Update - I also notice that the annotations from the plan on the final page of my WS are missing from the Trial Bundle, which merely contains an un-amended copy of the plan.

8
You've seen their WS, I'm correct in assuming? Just not the full 'bundle'

Yes, that's right. The WS sent to me in December comprised their original WS, the supplementary one provided after the original St Helens deadline for service, and their skeleton argument. Nothing I'd not seen before.

My concern is, if they have deliberately not served the trial bundle on me, that there may be unseen contents that they hope to ambush me with, in the hope that non-service will prevent me from consulting here.

Ideally I'll need time to do a reasonable side-by-side comparison of their WS bundle with the trial bundle.

On another question - how serious is the Eden Moore issue with respect to Mazur? Is it bad enough to render their litigation invalid, so should be mentioned from the outset with a respectful request for the matter to be set aside in light of the illegal conduct?

9
I've just been and spoken with the Court in person.

They have confirmed that BW Legal have provided them with a Trial Bundle, so it is clear that they have simply not provided me with a copy.

Court advice was to either raise it at the hearing tomorrow, or contact BW Legal directly today.

Any suggestions as to the best course of action here? How fatal will it be to tomorrow's hearing if I choose to wait and raise the non-service at the start of the hearing?

Or, in the interests of getting this wrapped up ASAP, should I contact BW Legal today and hope I get something this afternoon?

10
I've not received any further communication from BW Legal in respect of a Trial Bundle.

The directions appear to be fairly explicit on this matter:

Directions on Filing of Trial Bundles, if applicable

Failure to comply with these directions may result in the matter being removed from the list without further warning:

The parties should seek to agree an indexed, paginated electronic trial bundle and any indexed paginated electronic authorities' bundle; and

One party (which shall be the Claimant in default of agreement otherwise) shall email the electronic bundle to the Court at [COURT EMAIL] and the other parties no less than 3 days and no more than 7 days before the hearing date.

A hard copy bundle would be required for any trial listed as an attended 'in person' hearing/  All trial bundles are to be filed at the Court where the trial is to be held at least 3 clear days before the trial date.  Any hard copy bundles not taken away after a hearing will be destroyed.


Unless I'm misinterpreting things, a failure of BW Legal to have served me with a Trial Bundle by CoB yesterday appears to be a fairly significant breach of the directions?

Unless this is the sort of breach that would be significant enough to have the claim thrown out for non-compliance, I'm more than happy to receive a bundle today/tomorrow, as I shall still have enough time to go through it and compare/contrast with the already-submitted Witness Statements, as I'm just keen to draw a line under this and move on.

What I don't want is to be presented with a bundle at 9:55am on Thursday morning, with the risk that there may be material differences between the bundle and the Witness Statements.

11
Happy New Year, all.

My updated WS was filed with the Court and BW Legal on Christmas Eve, and I received an automated response from the Court to confirm that it had been received.

Is there anything else I need to be doing now?

I note that the directions state that a bundle is to be agreed between the parties and then filed by The Claimant between three and seven days prior to the hearing date.  I assume that BW Legal will not be seeking to 'agree' a bundle with me, and that I should expect to receive the bundle by email by CoB on Monday 5th January?

Should I be wary of any 'surprises' within the bundle, or will it broadly be a compilation of the various claim documents and the two Witness Statements?

As for preparation for the hearing, is it just a case of making sure that I'm fully-conversant with my own witness statement, and able to put myself in a position whereby I can put the various individual points to the Judge?

12
Thanks b789 - I appreciate the extra context here.

I've prepared everything including your amendment to the original WS, and have timetabled it to email to the Court and BW Legal at 1555hrs tomorrow afternoon, as I shall be away from my computer from about midday.

Please do let me know in the meantime if there are any other amendments you consider to be useful/necessary, and I can always make those changes tomorrow morning.

13
Thanks b789 - I shall make those amendments, and await anything else you might wish to advise.

Should I also add a copy of the Mazur judgment as an addtional item of evidence, in the same way as Brennan and Edward?

14
A quick update on this one.

BW Legal's court bundle has arrived with me today.  It is simply a re-print of the previous bundle from June, prepared in anticipation of the St Helens hearing, with the later additional witness statement from 27th June appended to the end.  I've not uploaded it to the Google Drive link, as it is identical to the previous two documents, which I have already uploaded.

Perhaps noteworthy is that neither of Eden Moore's witness statements have been amended, and both state that she has conduct of the matter under the supervision of her principal.

I also received a response to the Drop Hands letter under separate cover, marked Without Prejudice Save as to Costs which I have uploaded as 'BW Legal WP Offer'.  As a brief summary:

  • Our client's position is that the PCN has been issued correctly and that you are liable for the balance
  • We deny your allegation that Eden Moore has conducted unauthorised litigation.  If you believe this to be the case, you may escalate it to the relevant body
  • Your Drop Hands offer is declined.  Our client remains confident that, if the claim proceeds to a hearing, the court will find in their favour.
  • Without prejudice, save as to costs, our client will accept £180 to settle the matter. The offer is valid until 4pm on 31st December 2025.

The 'Save as to Costs' nature of the letter feels interesting, as it's clearly an attempt to double-down on their belief that they will win at court, and create a sense of added jeopardy to try and pressure me into paying them £180.

Given the jeopardy that it will also create for them, doubly so with the 'unauthorised conduct' issue, does this increase the possibility of a last minute discontinuance by the claimant?

15
Hi b789

I've re-uploaded everything to Google Drive, which should now be visible at this address:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Pl6JWUnidWTdy-QyQpqKjj-exgYbMKn9?usp=drive_link

Everything substantive should be there, including the initial back-and-forth with BWLegal which is referred to in my defence.  The other relevant documents (NTD, NTK, Claim Form, and their N180) are in a single document bundle.

This should cover off everything that we've done so far, but please let me know if there's anything missing.

The Witness Statement dated 10/06/2025 was submitted in anticipation of the St Helens hearing, so BWLegal will already have had sight of this.

Thanks again for all your assistance so far.

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