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Messages - Logician

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1
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: No insurance help
« on: March 17, 2025, 04:45:08 pm »
If it is any consolation it could be worse as each of them was not only driving with no insurance, but also permitted the other to drive their car without insurance, so there was potential for 12 points each and therefore a 6 months totting disqualification.

2
National Highways are responsible for motorways and should have a record of temporary limits imposed

3
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: No insurance help
« on: March 17, 2025, 01:37:46 pm »
I can see two possible approaches, neither of which are very hopeful:

1. Pleading guilty and arguing for special reasons not to endorse on the basis of the shortness of distance driven, is viable but it might be difficult to show that there was no intention to drive further since the purpose of driving was to try out the cars.

2. Depending on the circumstances of the car park, can the prosecution show that it is a public place? For the offence it must take place on a road or public place, it has been established that a car park is not a road, but if it is open to the public generally it is probably a public place.

4
As your wife appears to be the only possible driver, and the police have refused to offer a course (to which there is no legal entitlement anyway)  the fixed penalty seems to be the best available outcome, she cannot get less than 3 points if she goes to court and the financial penalty will be greater. 3 points is unlikely to have much effect on her insurance premium, if any.

5
The photographs not only show your vehicle in the lane closed by the Red X, they also show that the lane outside yours appears to have spaces that you could have moved over into, it might have been a bit tight but the other vehicles would no doubt have adjusted their positioning. Driving passed the Red X is the equivalent of driving through a red light. I think you have every chance of being found guilty of the offence, and you would be well advised to plead guilty, if you are found guilty after a trial not only will you have the fine to pay but also prosecution costs of at least £650.

6
"24MPH is 10% + 2MPH of 20 speed limit."

That formula gives the speed at which the police will normally take action, not the speed you can do before they take action, if you have read otherwise elsewhere it is wrong, and a mistake often made. Just to make it clear, as soon as you exceed the limit you are committing the offence, but the police use their inherent discretion not to take action until a higher level.

7
The police do not check the insurance of vehicles caught speeding unless there is some reason whereby insurance becomes an issue, so do not raise the matter and it is unlikely that you will have a problem.

8
The problem with ignoring the fixed penalty, so that you are charged, hopefuly under the wrong act and have to go to court is that it is a high risk strategy, if it fails you could end up seriously out of pocket financially and no one can tell you your chances of success, but the court legal advisor may well not be clued up on the obscurities of this legislation and will be unlikely to be sympathetic to a legalistic defence if you are charged under the wrong legislation and you will be arguing a legal point before him/her. If you are charged under the correct legislation you will have to argue the point made by the policeman, or plead guilty. While it is interesting for the posters here, I think the smart thing is to accept the fixed penalty.

9
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Poor Quality Image - Speeding
« on: December 21, 2024, 07:48:23 am »
We have tried to work out who was driving but the location was very close to our home, within a couple of miles -  and drove that road a few times on the same day and did not notice the camera - so genuinely have no idea which of us was driving. as we share the car - only one car between us it isn't even a case of it being one of our cars and therefore one being more likely than the other to be the driver.

So you drove that road "a few times on the same day" but you have the time of the alleged offence so surely you can eliminate some of those trips, leaving a few to concentrate on. Try to remember the purpose of those trips, were you always together for a joint purpose or were some of those trips more for one of you than the other?

I have to tell you that if the registered keeper fails to name a single driver, the court is very unlikely to accept that you have used reasonable diligence and will convict the keeper of failing to name the driver, which will result in an income related fine, costs and 6 points. Much as it may go against the grain in principle just to name the most likely driver, the way the system works, that is the pragmatic thing to do.

10
I have had a clean licence my whole life and feel its unfair for me to get penalised for something like this?


The thing is, you are not being assessed for the standard of your driving over your whole life or even over this journey, but for a very brief period when this incident occurred. You know that you should not have overtaken on the inside, even if the other party's driving was erratic and provocative. By all means point this out as mitigation, but if the police persist, you would be wiser to accept an out of court offer than defend a charge in court, because if you do that and lose the consequences will be considerably more serious. In a situation where there is fault on both sides, it tends to be the party who first complains to the police who wins, unfortunately.

11
An equivocal plea means that the court is left in some doubt about whether you are really pleading guilty or are saying that you do not really think you are guilty. Did you simply plead guilty or did you say something about the DVLA having the wrong address recorded, but that might not be a defence, so you were pleading guilty?

You might try writing to the court, apologising for any confusion, and stating you you wish to make it clear that you are pleading guilty with no reservations.

12
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Nip received
« on: November 13, 2024, 12:24:17 am »
Is it just better if I get sjnp to just respond guilty, or do mitigation ?


it is all too easy to write what you think is mitigation but actually makes things worse, in your case saying that you forgot that there might be fireworks in early November, and you were so distracted by them that you forgot that you were in the course of slowing for a red light and went straight through it, is unlikely to impress the court. When you have no useful mitigation, do not try to put something forward, simply plead guilty.

13
Speeding and other criminal offences / Re: Wrong location on NIP
« on: November 10, 2024, 07:06:38 pm »

I'm sure others on here can advise on the legality of the police instead then saying - oh yes, sorry that 172 notice was a load of rubbish - here is another one.

They could do that but would have to do it within 14 days, so the OP should bear that in mind and not reply until 14 days after the date of the alleged offence.

14
Is THIS the place where the incident occurred? If so traffic in lane 1 needs to allow traffic from lane 2 to filter in, which may be difficult in heavy traffic. It is obviously difficult to really judge who was at fault here without a video, and bear in mind that the officer may have a video and be able to produce it in court. Realistically the court is likely to prefer the officer's version of events if you take this to court, and that is your only alternative to accepting the fixed penalty. If you take it to court and lose it will cost you much more than £100, there will be an income based fine and prosecution costs of over £600 and possibly more than 3 points. Although it will stick in your throat as you feel you were in the right, I would say that the sensible thing to do here is to accept the fixed penalty.
This has been voted the worst junction in Britain for good reason.

15
Thanks

In terms of applying law to facts, if I can present issues with Royal Mail services (evidenced by Citizens Advice Bureau, MPs calling for improved services, reviews of failings from Ofcom etc), is there an idea on how this would be viewed by the court as a defence?

That would be very useful and more than most people in your situation are able to provide.

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