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UPDATE

My reps have been rejected as per the following:

Notice of Rejection Pg 1

Notice of Rejection Pg 2

I need to decide whether to go to the Independent Adjudicator with this one. Will the fact that they cancelled my second PCN have any bearing on how the adjudicator views the remaining PCN or the council's 'generosity'?

I will try to put something together but just wanted to report back and find out if anyone has any initial thoughts as to whether it is worth me appealing to the IA?

This?: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=153778&pid=1812293&mode=threaded&start=#entry1812293

Fantastic, thanks so much. I hadn't been notified of that response so hadn't seen it until you pointed it out.

Do you have any supporting paperwork regarding your conditional offer going before the judge?

Hi

I have an email from HMCTS Divorce and Dissolution that states that this will be taking place and another that says it has since taken place.

Could I do both as in put make reps and go for mitigation (or are the two mutually exclusive)?

@RS123 I can't see any obvious issues, I have found the map tile at https://store.traffweb.app/croydon/documents/parkmap/msched/N14_rv2_2.pdf and the signs seem to be located where they should be.

This is the sort of case where I'd suggest the strategy of last resort described here.

Do you have any mitigation we could use?

Thank you @cp8759. In terms of mitigation, I am currently going through a divorce (with children involved). The 'Conditional Order' was going in front of a judge on 15th March and this alleged contravention happened on 13th March; I don't know if that would be considered mitigating...

At the same time, I would like to make some reps on the basis of:

1) Inadequate signage

- A single warning sign has been placed on the left hand side of the road only (as opposed to on both sides of the road), next to a cycle storage unit and there are a number of parked vehicles so, with all of this to consider, the sign could easily be missed.

- The regulatory signs themselves on the approach to the junction of Holmesdale and Park Road are confusing. Given that one is approaching a junction, one would not expect to be entering a restricted zone. In addition, as bollards are visible across the junction, one might think that the restricted zone being referred to is the section (continuation) of Holmesdale Road located across the junction, rather than the small section of Holmesdale Road leading up to the junction.

2) Purpose of the signage is redundant

Which 'zone' are the regulatory signs meant to be demarcating? Essentially the council has put up an isolated a regulatory sign to create a line in the road near the junction with another busy road, thereby generating revenue on the basis of creating a 'healthy neighbourhood' the extent of which is a section of road a few metres long and wide.

I would argue that there is no protected zone since the signs are almost at the junction of Holmesdale Road and Park Road, and therefore the traffic management reasons for the signage are defunct. There is an isolated sign near the top of Holmesdale Road, which has no overall purpose certainly not the one dictated by the Traffic Order.

3) The PCN is defective

The Contravention Code is required to have a suffix indicating which vehicles are prohibited. Since it does not, a procedural error is apparent and the PCN is null and void.


Any advice on what I am thinking of putting forward tomorrow would be appreciated.

OP-----

The video shows, you are not leaving a restricted area but entering one at 371 Holmedale Road. The signpost has restrictions on both sides because it is an entry/egress prohibition.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3996017,-0.0789027,3a,41y,57.71h,80.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3RDJXFu_OLVROiFCFf-C1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Ergo I doubt you entered the restriction at Oliver Grove because you are heading in the direction of Oliver Grove.

However Oliver Grove was blocked off:-

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3996017,-0.0789027,3a,41y,57.71h,80.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3RDJXFu_OLVROiFCFf-C1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3996017,-0.0789027,3a,75y,246.33h,70.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3RDJXFu_OLVROiFCFf-C1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

But in your photo of the signage it isn't! That's why you were not given a 2nd PCN coming back through the signage. The Order spcifies entry and egress prohibitions. You exited via Oliver Grove (no bollards or planters).

So the signage doesn't indicate the entry to a "zone" and the traffic management reasons given in the Order are defunct i.e.the “Croydon Healthy Neighbourhood”.

You have at least 3 grounds for an appeal:-

1) No advance warning signs as noted by hca;

2) No protected zone--the prohibition signage has no purpose if the traffic management reasons of the Order have lapsed;

3) The suffix issue which renders the PCN null and void.


Mike

This is fantastic Mike, thank you so much for identifying/breaking down the grounds for appeal.

I will be making reps later today on the above grounds.

The Gazette notice of what appears to be the relevant Order.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4166090

Maybe I'm dumb (probably) but I can't see Oliver Road mentioned?
It's worth asking for the full traffic order at some point.

@Neil B You're definitely not dumb, I clearly am for ending up with two PCNs, a week apart on the same road, albeit in different locations 

Yes I agree, the PCN Location refers to Oliver Grove, yet the regulatory signs are not situated at/on/near Oliver Grove.

How do I request the full traffic order? Is there a particular department I would need to contact within the council?

I suspect your other PCN was for Upper Grove? -- which IS mentioned.

Yes, you are correct, my other PCN, for which I will create a separate thread, gives the Location as Holmesdale Road junction of Upper Grove

Thank you everyone for your comments.

Apologies for my ignorance but is the upshot that I could make reps of the basis that:

1) The evidence they have provided doesn't show the signage that I should have seen

2) The 'certain types of vehicle' on the PCN isn't specific enough

Also would I be making reps of any kind under the assumption that they will be rejected by the council but this buys me time to get the TMO and build a stronger case for possibly going to the independent adjudicator?