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Messages - selfstartr

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1
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Newham Council messing up PCN process?
« on: April 29, 2024, 10:01:16 pm »
Hi there,

The hire car I was using was cloned and I received 5 PCNs from Newham Council. Terrible timing. The whole thing has been horribly stressful but il cut out all the boring legal details and get to the point:

- 4 of the PCNs: I have now been sent a Charge Certificate, but they never sent a "Rejection Notice" for the "Further Evidence" request they asked me for, and which I complied to within 7 days.

- The 5th PCN: I did get a "Rejection Notice" for my evidence, but 45 days later I am yet to get a "Charge Certificate"

So I either have a Rejection Notice and no Charge Certificate, or no Rejection Notice and Charge Certificates.

Is this correct procedure in both instances? I can't appeal to a tribunal without a Rejection Notice, but they skipped straight to Charge Certificate.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge refusing to accept Crime reference number for cloned plates.
« on: April 23, 2024, 02:05:24 pm »
Quote from: BBC London on April 23, 2024, 11:16:32 am
Hi there Selfstrtr,

I'm doing a TV piece about this topic for BBC London TV. Is it possible you could email me to let me know how you got on with this situation. You should be able to access my email via this post.

All the best, Jim

Hi Jim - couldn't find your email, but I've DMd you with my email using this forum's message feature :) I have another £1000+ worth of fines from Newham Council, coincidently today they are not threatening me with bailiffs. They are not accepting mine, nor BMW Inchape PLCs evidence!

Happy to chat :)

3
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge refusing to accept Crime reference number for cloned plates.
« on: March 07, 2024, 01:24:47 pm »
Quote from: Enceladus on March 07, 2024, 12:47:02 pm
Well did you challenge the postal PCN/NTO when it arrived?
Sounds like you did not do so since you have a subsequent Charge Certificate.
If so, that was a mistake. You've fallen out of the process.

This is a statutory process and you need to follow it or you'll end up, rightly or wrongly, with a bailiff at the door. Had you challenged the NOT/PCN in time then the Council would have had to issue a Notice of Rejection with credentials to appeal to the Independent Adjudicator where you would have almost certainly won.

The next stage will be to register the Charge at the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court.

What date was the original PCN?
Did you challenge in any way? If so, when and how?

Please post up the text of the correspondence chain with the Council.

Hi there,

Yes, the good news is I appealed at every stage correctly.

I appealed using the online form, and the hire firm posted (and emailed) a letter with this wording to support me:

Quote
Dear Sir or Madam,
I have received the above parking charge from yourself. We originally transferred liability of this offence
over to a customer, Mr x. Case reference number: TFx
It has since been brought to our attention that in fact, x wasn’t in the vehicle at all and our
registration plates of xreg have been cloned.
We have reported this to Thames Valley Police who are helping us with this matter but in the meantime if
you can please cancel the above charge made to Mr x and instead we can provide you with the crime
reference number which is as follows: x
Please do feel free to get in contact with myself if you require anything else from us.

Kind regards

This letter and my appeal was dated within the initial PCN 28 Day window. A case manager reached out and said they rejected my "Ring Doorbell Footage", despite the main evidence being an Crime Reference Number. We then reminded them of this via email.

We then heard nothing back but got a charge certificate. I then called the council, who paused the case due to radio silence from the case manager. I chased twice more over a 4 week period via the case manager's email address which brings us to last week when they finally responded, saying the Crime Reference Number isnt sufficient.

So the main issue regardless of their process errors, is them not accepting a Crime Reference Number from the Police as proof the car was cloned. Is this allowed?

4
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge refusing to accept Crime reference number for cloned plates.
« on: March 07, 2024, 12:35:21 pm »
Quote from: Enceladus on March 07, 2024, 12:21:39 pm
Is there only the one Redbridge PCN?

Who has been threatened? You or your company?
Have you received any Charge Certificates?

Please confirm that the hire company transferred liability to you?
Did you or your company receive a Notice to Owner or a postal Penalty Charge Notices from Redbridge?

Is it correct that you challenged (submitted representations) against the NTO/PCN and were asked for further proof of the cloning? Or did they send you a Notice of Rejection?

Sorry for all the questions but it's best to nail down all of the facts.

Yes just one from Redbridge. Hire firm transferred it to me as per process. The PCN is in my name.

I have one Charge Certificate. This was issued incorrectly I believe and I stated my reasons in my reply to them via email to the case manager. The bullet points in the criteria do not mach the criteria to send out the certificate, as I provided evidence (Crime ref number) and appealed correctly.

The case was then put on pause in January because of radio-silence from my case manager. The Redbridge call center paused the case after I called to complain. I continued to chase via email to the named case manager and finally heard back last week from her boss. (1 month later).

I appealed with correct procedure, and now am in email communications with a senior member of the enforcement team, having been escalated after 6 weeks of radio silence from Redbridge.

Boss' title is: Business Processing Manager – Parking Management

She has emailed today and said that I have 7 days to provide a "Full Crime Report" (which isnt standard procedure and Thames Valley Police dont issue these) or else the debt will be registered at Northampton Court.

5
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Redbridge refusing to accept Crime reference number for cloned plates.
« on: March 07, 2024, 12:12:12 pm »
Thanks - not yet but been threatened with "debt being registered at Northampton County Court." if i dont supply a "full crime report" within 7 days.

6
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Redbridge refusing to accept Crime reference number for cloned plates.
« on: March 07, 2024, 11:59:04 am »
Located in England.

Hi there,

A hire car I was driving outside of London had it's plates cloned.

During the 3 days I had it, the car racked up 10+ PCNs worth £1000s in central London (and continued to do so for other users of the hire car later).

The hire car firm kindly got involved and managed to get all PCNs with all but one council cancelled thanks to a Crime Reference Number.

However, Redbridge are refusing to do this. They say they need a full report (whatever that means - which Thames Valley Report understandably wont provide due to limited resources).


  • I am being threatened with court and bailiffs etc if I dont pay within 7 days.
  • Crime Ref supplied from Thames Valley but refused
  • It feels like this is outsourced overseas (due to language barriers in email and on phone)
  • Insisting on pictures of car (what will that show? The car is identical so doesnt help. Plus its a hire car.
  • As an aside, Redbridge have been appalling with communications, and went AWOL for weeks, putting it on pause because "it was with the manager to review", and then finally resumed proceedings. They then changed the "14 Day Deadline" to "7 Days" after I sent a somewhat pissy but factually correct email.
  • The car has numerous PCNS against it with different drivers. Clearly, common sense shows that not all hire car users are driving 2 hours to London and breaking all the traffic codes each day.

It looks like Redbridge have history over this:https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6299468/council-rejects-appeal-for-pcn-of-cloned-car

I genuinely think this could be the next big council scandal. Outsourced firms with revenue targets breaking the appeal guidelines. Im lucky I have a PLC firm on side to help support a bit but it's terrifying to think many dont.

In this instance - do Redbridge have the right to refuse a Police crime number and take me to court? Im super stressed and I feel very powerless. It's bullying and defies all common sense and discretion.

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