Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi Incandescent or and other experts. Any opinion on the last post? Is going to tribunal on this basis ok?

Thanks.

Hi Incandescent,

Thanks for the previous advice. I submitted reps and as expected have been rejected. No re-offer of the discount so adjudication it is.

Please see notice of rejection attached. Any advice on the next steps I should take will be much appreciated. 

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Hi, my wife received the attached notice to owner for being “parked in an electric vehicles charging place during restricted hours without charging”. She has misplaced the PCN so I haven't seen it.

Her car is not electric / hybrid so of course there was no ability to be charging. In her defence she didn’t think it was an electric charging space due to all the other charging spaces being marked on the ground with the car charging symbol / electric vehicles but the two spaces where she parked are not. So, probably she parked and with her attention on getting the baby out of the car hasn’t noticed the electric charging sign and charging station at the space.

Please see attached pics of car park. She parked in the far left charging space not marked on the ground though there is the electric charging sign and charging station at the space. I have attached the car park T&C signs which makes no mention of the potential penalties for not charging in a charging place. These signs are pretty small and high up so you wouldn’t even walk past them if leaving the car park directly to the street as my wife did. So, it looks to me that there is no adequate signage to make drivers aware of potential contraventions unless you go on to the website and read the TRO (also attached). It is a free car park so you are not going to a ticket machine either to be made aware of T&Cs.

The only mention of a fee is on the fast charger, not at the space she was parked, which has a 60 minute overstay limit. But pretty sure these are charged directly by Charge Place Scotland timing how long a car is connected to the charger and not by a PCN.

I have seen thread with the same contravention and inadequate signage in a car park in England. The advice was to make the simple challenge below to the notice to owner and the appeal at tribunal was successful.

“I challenge liability for this penalty charge because the alleged contravention did not occur. This is because there was no adequate signage either in the vicinity of my vehicle, or on my route out of the car park.”

Is this the correct approach to take and as this is in Scotland is an appeal likely to be successful under Scottish law?

Thanks.

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Thanks for the feedback @cp8759.

I turned on to Guild Street from the junction with Carmelite Street (junction below “TCB” on the map you have posted). This is in the image in the original post. The sign on this corner appears to be the only warning of the bus gate ahead. I’d argue that there is too much going on at this junction to reusable be expected to take this information in too. As mentioned I don’t recall seeing this sign at all.

Ok, is there no milage in the signage being unclear / confusing? As mentioned, the council is changing the signs to include yellow backing boards on the bus gate signs to make them stand out / more visible, coloured road surfacing and adding three advanced directional signs. This is what hacks me off particularly since the council have announced they are doing this before the grace period ended. Based on their data that so many people were getting caught out. Seems unfair and they could (or should) have extended the grace period until the signage was upgraded. 

Is the point around the representations and forgoing the discount not enough to challenge the validity of the PCN? Should I make a representation and think better of it and see if they will allow me to make the reduced payment?

Hi,

Posted this on Pepipoo but was advised to post here also.

I have received a bus lane enforcement charge notice for driving in a bus gate on Guild Street in Aberdeen. I don't live in the area anymore so wasn't aware of the number bus gates and restriction that have been introduced in the city.

In all honesty I didn't even see the bus gate signs or process the marking on the road. In my opinion the signage is unclear as the blue bus gate signs don't stand out against the background (and are pretty high up) and confusing as there is a lot going on to process it all. As I don't live in Aberdeen I haven't been able to go back to check the signage but have found the images below.

As mentioned I wasn't aware of all the changes so was planning to drive along Guild Street as I'd usually do. When turning on to Guild Street (first attachment) I did take in the no access sign for cars/motorbikes but too late to be able to do anything about it. It's always been an area that has a lot going on in with multiple lanes, lights and crossings to pay attention to so with my concentration on being in the correct lane, cars turning off ahead and the oncoming lights I didn't even see / take a bus gate warning too. My mind was already wondering what / where am I supposed to go as Guild Street wasn't somewhere I'd think of being access only and I've continued through and not seen the bus gate (second attachment).

The new read layout means prohibition of motor vehicles, except for access as you turn on to Guild Street from Wapping Street and then the bus gate is thrown in for good measure at the end of Guild Street. So, I could have taken the first left off Guild Street and remained in the prohibited zone but avoided the bus gate if I had known.

It all looks so clear in a still photo! Even when I was coming back the other way later I only avoided ending up coming back through the bus gate in the other direction because the traffic was slow / stopped allowing time to process everything.

I was just going to pay the £30 reduced charge but have found some articles where the council is going to be making changing the signage to make it "even clearer" to drivers (links below). The council are going to make the bus gate signs more visible, colour the road surface etc. That seems an admission that the original signage is inadequate. The council were operating a grace period up to the 8th November. But sounds like locals have not even figured it all out so what chance to visitors have! The news on the improved signage is from the start of November so disgraceful to start sending out fines before making the changes.

Is it worth making an appeal based on the poor signage and fact that is being changed to make it clearer? Attached the charge notice for info too.

I've noticed some points in the ETRO that I'll check and add a post later.

Thanks.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-aberdeenshire/6245208/bus-gates-aberdeen-signs/

https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberdeen-news/new-work-aberdeen-bus-gates-8878827










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