Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: Sillygoose on December 06, 2025, 04:47:53 pm
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When accepting the COFP (not an FPN), pay particular attention to the instructions for providing your identification details (usually referred to as "licence details")
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Punishment letters have arrived for both offences and it's the best case scenario, 1 FPN & an offer of a SAC which I will accept.
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Car insurances don't seem to worry too much about speeding points these days.
I did some freelance work for an insurance comparison website a few years ago (they pay you for using their website and entering quotes based on the parameters they provide).....it's all about the customer journey etc etc.
I was surprised that a premium for a 60yr old female with 8 years NCB driving a Peugeot 308 GT (72 plate) was £244 but if I added an SP30 conviction it went up to £253.80.
So I think you're right, a speeding conviction would have cost me £9.80.....hardly punitive!
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I tend to do the CPC refreshers when my employer offers them usually over the 5 year period. It's more tolerable that way.
Your only chance of getting off lightly is to hope for a speed awareness course for one and a fixed penalty of £100 and 3 points for the other one.
And to paraphrase what a respected member on here said a couple of months ago in a similar case where someone was asking why his satnav didn't show speed camera locations, try using the very large screen fitted to the front of the vehicle and look for the round signs the council and Highways Authority puts next to the road to let you know the speed limit."
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Best thing is to go back there and take actual measurements if you can, but it can be an expensive day in court if you challenge and lose. You may be lucky and get the standard FPN £100 and 3 points.
Car insurances don't seem to worry too much about speeding points these days.
The Driver CPC courses vary in content, but those I've been on have had a session regrding speed limits. One notable speed awareness course I went on the chap lecturing shed a picture of a national speed limit sign on a 2 lane road and asked "what's the speed limit here?" He wasn't happy with the reply "what vehicle am I driving?"
Court isn't somewhere I want to go for the reason you said, very expensive. Still waiting to find out my punishment.
I've been driving LGV since 2018 so have only done one 35 hour CPC refresher (I did it over 5 days, never again) I don't remember covering road speed limits but obviously that's not a defence for my actions.
You are right about "what vehicle am I driving" but also I've spoken to car drivers that think the NSL sign (white with black line through) that think it means the limit is 70 on a single carriageway ;D
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Best thing is to go back there and take actual measurements if you can, but it can be an expensive day in court if you challenge and lose. You may be lucky and get the standard FPN £100 and 3 points.
Car insurances don't seem to worry too much about speeding points these days.
The Driver CPC courses vary in content, but those I've been on have had a session regrding speed limits. One notable speed awareness course I went on the chap lecturing shed a picture of a national speed limit sign on a 2 lane road and asked "what's the speed limit here?" He wasn't happy with the reply "what vehicle am I driving?"
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I have heard that some police forces do not offer courses for speeding when the vehicle involved is an HGV.
On another scan I think you may be right - the streetlighting is only on one side and very easy to miss.
I've just used Google earth to take measurements between two light posts, I don't think it was 100% accurate (my pc is old slow) but they appear to fall short of 200 yards.
I've accepted my fate, it's my fault I'm here... anyway I did a quick insurance quote as my car insurance is due, with points on my licence the quotes were cheaper by £15! ??? :D
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I have heard that some police forces do not offer courses for speeding when the vehicle involved is an HGV.
On another scan I think you may be right - the streetlighting is only on one side and very easy to miss.
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a road is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of this Act if—
(a)in England and Wales, there is provided on it a system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart;
Looking very quickly at the GSV images I would suggest that requirement is met (though it's difficult to be sure). 200 yards is the length of 20 buses.
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And here (https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/caught-both-ways-hgv/msg101339/#msg101339)
As much as I appreciate Roythebus contributions I was looking for the official wording, Roythebus provided valuable information for me which has pointed me in the direction I required, however he didn't (and I don't expect him to) provide the sections and subsections I need to read.
Andy, I appreciate you going out of your way to highlight Roythebus previous input, thank you.
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And here (https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/caught-both-ways-hgv/msg101339/#msg101339)
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Here: RTRA 1984 s82 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/82)
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Add to that possibility of the TC suspending your HGV entitlement for a while as well. your employer is under an obligation to report such matters; whether further action will be taken remains to be seen. You may be lucky.
I was reminded of the street lamp spacing on my last speed awareness course. :) Yep, I get done as well, but never when driving a bus.
Where can I find detailed information about the street lamp spacing? And would I have to measure the distances between them in person or would an online tool & GSV be acceptable?
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Add to that possibility of the TC suspending your HGV entitlement for a while as well. your employer is under an obligation to report such matters; whether further action will be taken remains to be seen. You may be lucky.
I was reminded of the street lamp spacing on my last speed awareness course. :) Yep, I get done as well, but never when driving a bus.
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I've been reading up on the possible outcome of my crimes and I forgot times have changed so instead of worst case scenario of 3 points and £100 fines each way it's now: 4-6 points or 7-28 days disqualification & a fine of 75-125% of a weeks wage.
You need to be careful what you read and (particularly in your case) what you don't.
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I see no reason why fixed penalties wouldn’t be offered in the worst case (time permitting).
If the OP has taken the trouble to do some research, then rather than showing our ignorance by arguing with him, we should thank him for enlightening us. I'm just off to update the super-seekrit "READ THIS FIRST" post.
No one is arguing here. As for doing my research, sometimes it's best to get help from people with experience, hakuna ya tatas.
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I see no reason why fixed penalties wouldn’t be offered in the worst case (time permitting).
If the OP has taken the trouble to do some research, then rather than showing our ignorance by arguing with him, we should thank him for enlightening us. I'm just off to update the super-seekrit "READ THIS FIRST" post.
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I see no reason why fixed penalties wouldn’t be offered in the worst case (time permitting).
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I have heard that some police forces do not offer courses for speeding when the vehicle involved is an HGV.
It's going to be a hard lesson learned if that is how Cumbria police operate.
I've been reading up on the possible outcome of my crimes and I forgot times have changed so instead of worst case scenario of 3 points and £100 fines each way it's now: 4-6 points or 7-28 days disqualification & a fine of 75-125% of a weeks wage.
If people are suggesting I have a chance of contesting this then I'm all ears.
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I seem to remember street lights must be every 180m/200 yards. We had lots of discussions about this when I joined pepipoo back in the late 2000's.
When I mentioned updating in my earlier thread the driver CPC course which, for those who are not aware, is 35 hours compulsory training for bus and lorry drivers that has to be undertaken over a five year period. Designed to improve driving standards and update professional drivers on road traffic law, H&S, economic driving etc. The driver must carry his CPC card at all times when driving a lorry or bus.Fine up to £1000 for not carying the card!
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I have heard that some police forces do not offer courses for speeding when the vehicle involved is an HGV.
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There are at least 4 street lights in the section of road concerned but on Google earth, it's hard to calculate the exact distance between them to see if they are compliant with the minimum legal spacing requirement for a restricted road without repeaters.
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This might give you a clue: https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9793721,-2.8786931,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sKZRVoN-NmbBvyYD_LTXhrA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0%26panoid%3DKZRVoN-NmbBvyYD_LTXhrA%26yaw%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
I'm surprised that as an HGV driver you are not aware of what a restricted road is. Have you ever attended the driver CPC course that we have to do every five years? That is supposed to keep drivers updated on road traffic laws and other driving hints and tips.
The restricted road limit has been in place since 1935. Updating seems superfluous.
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This might give you a clue: https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9793721,-2.8786931,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sKZRVoN-NmbBvyYD_LTXhrA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0%26panoid%3DKZRVoN-NmbBvyYD_LTXhrA%26yaw%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTIwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
I'm surprised that as an HGV driver you are not aware of what a restricted road is. Have you ever attended the driver CPC course that we have to do every five years? That is supposed to keep drivers updated on road traffic laws and other driving hints and tips. Plus, if you get more points, a visit to the local Traffic commissioner without tea and choccy biscuits may well be on the cards.
Having said that, I can't see any 30 repeater signs or a system of street lighting along that road. I suggest if you go that way agin have a look, that would probably be the only defence.
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A course will be offered up to and including 42mph so you are fine. Just.
https://library.college.police.uk/docs/NPCC/Speed-enforcement-disposal-guidance-2025.pdf
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Yes, one should qualify for a course.
Thanks for your help.
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Yes, one should qualify for a course.
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As a HGV driver that's slightly worrying that you do not know what a restricted road is… (a road that has a limit of 30mph because of a system of street lighting less than 200 yards apart unless there are signs to the contrary)
But this road is not one. So the terminal signs set the limit upon entry but there are no repeaters to maintain it. But there's no strict distance requirement for the frequency of repeaters. I haven't measured the distance between the gateways but I guess you may struggle to show the limit is not adequately signed.
Unfortunately I can't know everything but thank you for explaining it.
Is 42mph within the limits allowed for a SAC or am I better off to just expect that I'm getting 6 points?
Hoping for the best outcome of 3pts and SAC (and a lesson learned).
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As a HGV driver that's slightly worrying that you do not know what a restricted road is… (a road that has a limit of 30mph because of a system of street lighting less than 200 yards apart unless there are signs to the contrary)
But this road is not one. So the terminal signs set the limit upon entry but there are no repeaters to maintain it. But there's no strict distance requirement for the frequency of repeaters. I haven't measured the distance between the gateways but I guess you may struggle to show the limit is not adequately signed.
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I'd note there are 30mph terminal signs on entering the area from both directions but there (if GSV is correct) are no repeaters and no system of streetlighting (which would make it a restricted road).
What do you mean by restricted road? As far as I'm aware there are no restrictions except the speed limit.
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I'd note there are 30mph terminal signs on entering the area from both directions but there (if GSV is correct) are no repeaters and no system of streetlighting (which would make it a restricted road).
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Yes, is there anything I can do to argue my case.
Give us a clue- what case do you think you have to argue? There is no requirement for a camera to be visible.
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Yes, is there anything I can do to argue my case.
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Do you have question?
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Speed limit 30mph
Speed captured one way 49mph
Speed captured the other way 42mph
Location https://maps.app.goo.gl/dfNmv95BS9HVsUR66?g_st=ac
I did not see the camera as it is on the telegraph pole before the buildings on the right (towards Longtown).