Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: poklepi on July 03, 2025, 01:48:49 pm
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Hi all,
Does anyone have any further input on this?
How can I challenge the fact that the NTO was not lawfully served?
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Hi HC Andersen,
I hope you are well.
Just checking to see if you had any further comments.. I wanted to understand If I and how I can challenge this PCN. Thanks.
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Hi HC Andersen,
Thanks for your response.
Just to make sure I understand correctly... is the issue here that the NTO was not lawfully served, since it was sent to the wrong address (i.e. not the one of the person who appears to have been the owner of the vehicle when the contravention occurred) So this NTO is not valid even though it was addressed to correct person but sent to a wrong address?
Does this count as a procedural impropriety that can be used to challenge the PCN? How should this be raised?
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That's not lawful and on the face of it is a clear procedural impropriety.
From the General Regs
Notice to owner
20.(1) Where
(a)a penalty charge notice has been given with respect to a vehicle under regulation 9, and
(b)the period of 28 days specified in the penalty charge notice as the period within which the penalty charge is to be paid has expired without that charge being paid,
the enforcement authority concerned may serve a notice (a notice to owner) on the person who appears to it to have been the owner of the vehicle when the alleged contravention occurred.
From the Traffic Management Act:
owner, in relation to a vehicle, means the person by whom the vehicle is kept, which in the case of a vehicle registered under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (c. 22) is presumed (unless the contrary is proved) to be the person in whose name the vehicle is registered;
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Hi H C Andresen,
To clarify,
The NTO has been sent to the address of the new registered keeper but it displays the name of the previous registered keeper. Hence, the address on the NTO is not the one held by DVLA at the time of the contravention but the address of the new registered keeper who purchased the car in the meantime. Hope this makes sense.
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The driver is the registered keeper and the DVLA details are up to date. Lets see what the council says.
I should point out that the vehicle has been sold in the meantime. The Notice to Owner has been sent to the purchasers address.
The NTO is not in the purchasers name, but the name of the driver/previous registered keeper (the one who committed the contravention).
OP, let's clear up the procedural issues pl.
Quite rightly the NTO is in the name of the RK at the time(who was driving is not relevant for these purposes). But is the address on the NTO that held by DVLA at the time? If so, what does 'has been sent to the purchaser's address' mean?
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Hi Stamfordman,
Thanks for the reply. The NTO is not in the purchasers name, but the name of the driver/previous registered keeper (the one who committed the contravention). Does this change anything? Thanks.
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If the NTO is the purchaser's name they need to make representations stating they became owner after the date of the contravention, supplying a sales invoice or such like and giving your details - name and address - as the seller.
There should be a way of doing this online but it will be a section on the printed NTO.
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Hi All,
So the Notice to Owner has finally been received - I have uploaded the letter here: https://imgpile.com/p/rWiYeUB
I should point out that the vehicle has been sold in the meantime. The Notice to Owner has been sent to the purchasers address. Also for some reason imgpile will not let me upload one of the letters pages detailing the HOW TO PAY and HOW TO CHALLENGE sections.
Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
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I haven't read through this but from Mr Andersen's last post it looks worth going on. Hopefully he'll be back soon.
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hi H C Andersen
Just checking if you think I should go forward with this or just pay the penalty.. I have time until October 30 to pay the reduced amount. Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks.
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No idea what the circumstances of the previous PCN theyre referring to are.. this might just be a copy-and-paste mistake.
If you remember, I had a similar situation with Wandsworth Council back in 2024, where they claimed the signs had been erected but ultimately dropped the case because they couldnt prove it. The council accepted my representation following the Notice to Owner. Except that in that case they took the time to write a response and supporting argument which turned out to be weak. The signage was also inaccurate in that case.
It was a very similar situation, I had left the country, no sign was visible when I parked, and I came back to find a PCN on the windshield.
What are your thoughts? Should I fight it?
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No, it doesn't.
Their reply is some cut and paste response which ignores the grounds of representation. By the way, what were the circumstances of the previous PCN?
As their photos show, either you are blind or telling a terminological inexactitude - because the suspension signs are rather obvious - or they'll struggle at NTO stage. 'Normally place..7 days', 'the sign had been place since 19 June'. They'd need more than mere assertions to win at adjudication.
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Here are the pictures of the letter:
https://imgpile.com/p/3mqW3Pd
Let me know your thoughts on next steps.
Can the council even reply after such a long delay? Is there a cut-off period for responding to informal challenges?
According to the information on www.patrol.gov.uk
, local authorities have 56 days to respond to representations. If no Notice of Rejection (NoR) is issued within that time, the representations are deemed accepted.
In my case:
Challenge submitted: 08/07/2025
Council reply received: 16/10/2025
Thats a total of 100 days.
Does this not make their response invalid? Thanks!
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. . .
How can I upload the pictures of the letter now that imgur does not work in the UK? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
As Imgur is no longer available in the UK, you will need to use
ibb.co (https://imgbb.com/) or https://imgpile.com/
for posting images.
Wherever possible, use the BBCode
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Hi All,
I received the challenge refusal letter on 16/10/2025 and have 14 days from the date of service to pay the lower charge or wait for the Notice to Owner to make the formal representation. They have not provided any evidence in the form of a signed log and/or dated photos that the signs were erected on 19th of June apart from the pcn pictures taken on 28/06/2025 as requested.
How can I upload the pictures of the letter now that imgur does not work in the UK? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Hi H C Andersen,
Thanks for the draft, this has now been submitted.
The driver is the registered keeper and the DVLA details are up to date. Lets see what the council says.
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How would you structure the formal representation
I wouldn't!
You have a PCN, therefore the next stage is to make informal representations before a Notice to Owner is served(at least 28 days hence). IMO, you put to the council what you've written here.
Contravention did not occur
At approx. *** on 27 June I parked my car at the location seen in the authority's evidence i.e. o/s 62 Evelyn Gardens. This was no more that 1 metre from what is shown as being a clear and prominent 'suspension' sign which referred to 'Outside 62 Full frontage' although the fact that it is not incorporated into the sign above and relates to a non-contiguous area suggests that it refers to a separate removal request and was placed separately.
In any event, this sign was not present when I parked nor when I checked it later in the day on 27th despite the reference to being 'posted 19/6/2025'.
Given the routine nature of the reason for suspension, the council's policy of giving at least 7 calendar days' notice of suspension has effect and as 7 days' notice was not given the PCN should be cancelled. If these representations are rejected then the council must provide evidence in the form of a signed log and/or dated photos establishing that the signs were erected on 19th June.
OP, who is the registered keeper and are their DVLA details current?
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On the 27th early in the morning is the last time I parked. Last time I checked on the car was on the day.
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When did you park there.
When did you last check on car.
They should have a log of vehicles parked in the bay when the signs went up - seems off there are multiple signs for what seems to be consecutive odd-numbered addresses.
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Hi all,
Im looking for advice and would appreciate any help you can offer.
1. Authority:
Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (RBKC)
2. Alleged Contravention:
Code 21 Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space residents' bay
3. Location:
Evelyn Gardens, SW7
4. Contravention Date and Time:
28/06/2025 at 10:16 AM
5. Vehicle Reg:
LR69YSP
6. PCN Number:
KE6866020A
7. Amount Outstanding:
£80.00
Outline of the Case:
The council claims a suspension sign was erected on 19 June 2025, for a suspension that began on 28 June 2025 at 08:30 AM and ended the same day at 4:00 PM.
According to RBKCs own published rules, suspension signage for resident bays must be posted at least 7 calendar days in advance. The sign says it was posted on 19 June 2025.
I am confident that no sign was present prior to my departure, as I parked the car legally in a resident bay and flew out of the UK on 27 June 2025. I returned to London on Tuesday, 1 July 2025. Upon my return I found the PCN.
I wouldnt have knowingly left my vehicle in a suspended bay.
How would you structure the formal representation under these circumstances? Am I correct in assuming that the onus should be on the council to prove that the sign was in fact present at least 7 calendar days in advance?
Do you have any legal or procedural grounds to challenge the PCN, including references to case law or previous tribunal decisions I can use?
I would appreciate any relevant guidance on requesting photographic evidence from the council if necessary.
Here are the pictures:
https://imgur.com/a/DfdvJI8
Thanks!