Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: gliderpilot63 on February 26, 2025, 02:40:44 pm

Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 27, 2025, 11:58:59 am
Thanks b789.
Response to Parkingeye confirming that keeper was the driver has not yet been sent, but will be over the coming weekend.  Thanks for your advice.  I will update with Parkingeye's response.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: b789 on March 24, 2025, 07:10:07 pm
Let's summarise the facts up to this point:

Initial appeal was submitted by the Keeper, denying driver identity and citing non-compliance with PoFA.
• ParkingEye's response (14 March) was not a rejection but a holding letter stating that the appeal was referred for further review because the Keeper had not named the driver.
• The Keeper has since sent a letter confirming they were also the driver, effectively waiving PoFA and shifting the appeal to focus on driver liability.
• No response has been received from ParkingEye since that update.

So, where does this leave the POPLA process?

1. ParkingEye has not yet issued a POPLA code, which they are required to do if they reject an appeal.
2. The 28-day deadline for responding to an appeal only applies once the appeal is considered complete (i.e., with all requested information).
3. The driver's letter providing identity completed the appeal submission — so the clock likely restarted from that date.
4. Assuming the driver’s identity letter was received shortly after 14 March, ParkingEye has until around 18 April to respond before the appeal is deemed timed out and considered accepted by default under the PPSCoP.

You have two options, depending on how proactive you wish to be:

Option 1: Wait Until 28 Days from the Driver Identity Letter

Under Section 8.4.1(b) of the PPSCoP v1.1, ParkingEye must either:

• Respond to the completed appeal within 28 days of receipt, or
• Send a holding response within 28 days, confirming receipt and giving a timeline for their full reply.

If ParkingEye fails to do either, they will be in breach of the Code of Practice.

Once 28 days have passed (likely by mid-April), the driver may then:
• Send a formal complaint to ParkingEye referencing the breach; and
• Escalate the matter to the BPA and DVLA if ParkingEye continues to pursue the charge improperly.

Option 2: Prompt ParkingEye Now With a Reminder of Their Obligations

If the driver prefers to act before the 28-day period expires, the following letter is appropriate:

Quote
Subject: Request for Appeal Response – PCN [reference number]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write further to your letter dated 14th March 2025 and my response dated [insert date driver identified themselves], in which I confirmed that I was the driver on the date of the alleged contravention.

Since that time, I have received no further correspondence from you. I now remind you of your obligation under Section 8.4.1(b) of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Sector Code of Practice (PPSCoP), which requires that:

“The operator must respond to an appeal within 28 days of receipt or, if it is unable to provide a full response within this time, it must write to the appellant within 28 days to confirm receipt and provide an anticipated timescale for response.”

Please confirm whether my appeal has been accepted or rejected. If rejected, you must provide a valid POPLA verification code so I may refer the matter to independent appeal.

Yours faithfully,

[Full Name]
[Address]
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 24, 2025, 01:31:57 pm
I will get him to try to obtain letter.  The first knee was replaced around 10 years ago and he has just had an appointment through for preliminary x-rays as a precursor for the other knee to be replaced.

If Parkingeye and possibly POPLA do not accept the mobility impairment based upon whatever evidence the driver is able to provide and appeals are rejected, what happens next?
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: b789 on March 24, 2025, 01:06:04 pm
Unless you can get the driver to obtain a letter from their GP or Consultant that confirms their disability and that has lasted or is going to last for over 12 months, then they ParkingEye are not going to care and neither will they be obliged to unless the evidence it put before them.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 24, 2025, 09:06:45 am
Thanks b789. The keeper was the driver.  I am a friend and unrelated but able to at least try to gain knowledge from this website and to post documents for comment, which my friend is unable to do.

Following your earlier advice, no photos were sent to evidence the medical issues, merely the narrative in the second draft letter.

I shall tweak your draft response to reflect the fact that the keeper was in fact the driver.

In that response, given that Parkingeye completely ignored the earlier reference to the driver's mobility impairment, should the driver's description of what occurred and the fact that his impairment was the cause of the extended consideration period be included again?
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: b789 on March 22, 2025, 06:00:43 pm
So did you appeal as the Keeper and not identified the driver? I am not absolutely clear whether you are the Keeper and you are appealing as the Keeper because you were not the driver, or whether your friend is the Keeper and a different driver is the subject of this.

I really hope you or your friend or whoever sent the appeal didn't just attach some random photos of the knee as "evidence" of the drivers disability. I already told you that a photo of the knee or a brace is not going to do the job!!!

The response from ParkingEye is a standard template letter that appears to:

• Ignore the content of the appeal, especially the detailed explanation regarding the driver’s disability;
• Misstate PoFA by citing Schedule 4 paragraph 9(2)(b) while ignoring the requirement for full compliance under 9(2)(f)–(h) to establish Keeper liability;
• Attempt to shift liability onto the Keeper without addressing the failure to form a contract or their duty to make reasonable adjustments under the Equality Act 2010;
• Omit any reference to the Equality Act or the supplied medical evidence, which suggests the appeal was not meaningfully considered.

However, evidencing a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010 requires more than a photo of a scar or brace. For the mitigation to be properly considered under the Equality Act, the Keeper (on behalf of the driver) should ideally provide a written statement from a medical professional, such as:

• A GP or consultant’s letter stating the nature and duration of the impairment;
• Confirmation that the condition substantially affects the driver’s mobility;
• A statement indicating that the condition is long-term and meets the statutory definition of a disability under section 6 of the Equality Act 2010 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/6).

The strongest grounds lie in the Equality Act mitigation, and it is strategically cleaner for the Keeper to now name the driver and transfer liability, since:

• The Equality Act defence only applies to the driver, and
• POPLA (or any future court claim) would require evidence of the driver’s protected characteristic, which the Keeper cannot assert on their own account.

This is my suggested response to the letter from ParkingEye:

Quote
Subject: Re: Parking Charge Notice [Insert Reference]

Date of Issue: [Insert Date]
Vehicle Registration: [Insert VRM]

Dear Sir/Madam,

Dear Sir/Madam,

Further to your recent correspondence, I now confirm the identity of the driver of the vehicle on the date of the alleged incident.

The full name and current address for service of the driver is:

[Full Name of Driver]
[Driver’s Postal Address]

In accordance with Schedule 4, Paragraph 5(1)(b) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, I am no longer liable for this Parking Charge Notice, and you are now required to pursue the driver directly.

For the avoidance of doubt, this transfer of liability is made within the applicable time limits set out in Schedule 4, and the information provided is accurate. Please confirm that I will receive no further correspondence regarding this matter.

Yours faithfully,

[Full Name of Keeper]
Registered Keeper

This shifts the matter to the driver, allowing the full Equality Act mitigation to be developed on their behalf in any subsequent appeal. The driver can then prepare a disability-based mitigation case supported by GP evidence, if necessary.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 22, 2025, 04:50:37 pm
Any suggestions as to how to progress? 

I was originally hoping for a draft letter afterI posted the NtK but when one was not posted I had a go at drafting as I had found another thread where Parkingeye were the offending company.  My second draft following comment noted that the appeal was as keeper (not as driver) and the main comment seemed to relate to the evidence to be provided to support the mobility impairment and not the nature of who should be appealing, so the appeal was in the capacity of keeper, not as driver.

Could anyone let me have an indication of whether the keeper's response to this latest correspondence from Parkingeye should be by the keeper or whether the keeper should now identify the driver. 

It does not seem clear to me whether the original NtK is sufficiently defective that Parkingeye cannot hold the keeper responsible in any event.

I am trying to assist the keeper (who is unable to deal with this) and feel a bit like the blind leading the blind at the moment.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 20, 2025, 04:33:25 pm
no the appeal was by the keeper who confirmed that the driver was mobility impaired, asking that Parkingeye to reconsider the consideration period in view of that.  given the potential defects in the NtK the keeper wanted to first mention the driver's mobility impairments.  should the keeper now divulge the driver's identity and so rely entirely on the disability?  one poster was going to draft a letter but did not post.  the driver does not want to trouble his GP at this stage for correspondence confirming that the knee has been replaced because this can be evidenced by scars confirming the fact that the knee has in fact been replaced.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: DWMB2 on March 20, 2025, 04:23:37 pm
In this case, yes, it is better to appeal as the driver. They will need to provide some evidence of their disability.
I thought the appeal had already named the driver, in order to provide evidence of the disability?
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 20, 2025, 04:18:24 pm
So, the attached letter was received today.  No acknowledgement of the driver's mobility issues raised in the initial latter but a continued request to try to get the driver's identity from the keeper.  Any advice on the next step anyone please?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 07, 2025, 09:48:27 pm
Attaching a photo of the knee and knee brace are useless. You will need to get a doctors letter confirming the temporary disability. How long has the driver had this disability?
OK

he has had the disability for circa 15 years, knee replaced circa 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: ixxy on March 07, 2025, 09:39:38 pm
Good advice from DWBM2 about how to word the appeal. Keep it to the point.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: b789 on March 07, 2025, 07:43:40 pm
Attaching a photo of the knee and knee brace are useless. You will need to get a doctors letter confirming the temporary disability. How long has the driver had this disability?
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 07, 2025, 07:11:41 pm
Second draft:

I am appealing the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the registered keeper of the vehicle. 

The driver of the vehicle has not been identified, and I decline to identify the driver as there is currently no legal obligation to do so.  Your letter attempts to hold me, the registered keeper liable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), but has failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of that act.

Background

At the time of the alleged incident, the driver of the vehicle was attempting to park for a 48-hour period, having previously parked at this car park for a similar term a number of years ago.

The driver is mobility impaired as a result of having a knee replacement, needs a stick to walk and is currently in the process of arranging for a second knee replacement operation.  The driver therefore has difficulty getting into and out of a motor vehicle and is unable to walk as quickly as a person that is not affected by those mobility issues.

On arriving at the car park, the driver found the car park to be relatively busy and had only a few free parking spaces.  A first space was found and the driver pulled into that space, only to find that due to the size of the space it was not possible for the driver to get out of the vehicle.  The driver therefore left that space and drove around the car park again to find another free parking space.  Again, due to the size of the space it was not possible for the driver to exit the vehicle.  The driver then left that second space and continued to drive around the car park to find the third space.  The driver was able park and was able to exit the vehicle. 

The driver, having retrieved their walking stick walked to the ticket machine to pay.  There were others at the machine in front of the driver, so the driver needed to wait until those others had vacated the machine.  Whilst the parking tariffs were displayed on the machine, including a rate for 24 hours, there did not appear to be any option to buy a ticket for multiple 24-hour periods.

As a consequence of it not being clear whether or not multiple periods of 24-hours could be purchased, the driver then walked to one of the signs to see if there was any further information relating to parking duration.  There was no further information and also no confirmation whether the maximum parking period was in fact 24 hours.  Additionally, there was no indication on the sign that drivers were to be allowed a limited time in the car park before parking charges applied, nor any signage to display how long that consideration period was.

Unable to confirm that it was possible to buy two 24-hour tickets to facilitate parking for a 48-hour period, the driver decided that it would be best to leave the car park and look for an alternative long-stay car park.

Incidentally, the driver did then park in the Frenchgate Centre Rail Parking car park which is also managed by Parkingeye Ltd and parked in that car park (and paid) for the required period.

The driver has subsequently learned that Parkingeye Ltd allows the minimum period of 5 minutes for the Consideration Period for drivers to decide upon whether to accept the parking contract. 

For the driver this period was wholly inadequate as a consequence of the impaired mobility.

The events leading up to the driver staying at the site for 9 minutes were entirely reasonable and consistent with the fact that the car park was busy, had few free spaces wide enough to park, and signage that confused the driver.

I am attaching photographs of the driver’s replacement knee and the knee brace used for the knee for which an operation is awaited. 

I would therefore ask that you reconsider whether the minimum Consideration Period at this car park is appropriate for a mobility impaired driver and cancel the charge.

If you do not cancel this PCN, please provide the appropriate POPLA code so that a full appeal can be prepared and take notice that the driver will be defending this matter in Court if you fail to cancel the PCN to then seek to escalate the matter to recover the alleged “debt”.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 07, 2025, 05:43:16 pm
Thanks IXXY - good points well made.

As far as the signage not being clear, neither the driver nor the passenger could work out whether it was possible to stay for longer than 24 hours, so left and found another car park.  The signage was not clear enough for them to work it out at least.

So should the initial letter to Parkingeye disclose the identity of the driver or should the keeper refer to the driver's mobility issues and ask that they are taken into account?

Should the initial letter simply refer to what happened, identify the driver's mobility issues and ask that Parkingeye allow a longer consideration period than the 5 minute minimum?

I have absolutely no idea whether it was or was not possible to pay for longer than 24 hours.  I have not visited that car park for years.  The driver could not work out whether it was possible to select a period longer than 24 hours at the machine and did not have the time to try and download a payment app.

Thanks
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: DWMB2 on March 07, 2025, 05:31:19 pm
Quote
First until you appeal you can't claim they've not taken any disability issues into account. They don't know about the drivers alleged issues so how can they make adjustments to accommodate them.
This point can be fairly easily reworded... Instead of saying they haven't made a reasonable adjustment, turn it instead to point out that due to their disability the driver requires a reasonable adjustment, set out what that adjustment is (in this case, a longer consideration period), provide evidence of the driver's need for such adjustments, then ask that they make one.

If they reject your appeal, then the case can be made that they have failed to make reasonable adjustments.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: ixxy on March 07, 2025, 05:14:57 pm
Good luck with all that as most of it isn't factually correct.

First until you appeal you can't claim they've not taken any disability issues into account. They don't know about the drivers alleged issues so how can they make adjustments to accommodate them.

All the stuff about not displaying the consideration and grace periods on the signage will get you nowhere, it's not done by any of the private parking companies and is not a requirement of the joint COP.

If you're claiming the signage is not clear or misleading you need to evidence why that is the case otherwise they will just say it's not. If your argument is around the consideration period see above.

The burden of proof is not on Parking Eye to prove you were the driver if they are able to use POFA to transfer liability to the keeper. All the arguments above about the PCN not being POFA complaint are theoretical and untested and certainly won't work at appeal stage or probably POPLA.

You've been given a reasonable appeal criteria above based on the drivers medical issues, appeal on that basis, then if they reject it you can use the argument they have not made reasonable adjustments once they have been informed of the drivers circumstances in a POPLA appeal. If you want this resolved quickly, keep it simple and lead the person reading the appeal to the conclusion you want them to make.

Final point, are you sure it wasn't possible to pay for more than 24 hours, no app based payment options, the payment machine definitely didn't have the option to pay for more than 24 hours. The car park is next to the railway station, seems odd you can't stay for more than 24 hours.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 07, 2025, 01:07:14 pm
I would be grateful for comments on the first draft letter to Parkingeye Ltd below.

The driver does not have a blue badge or any documentation evidence of the knee replacement but can provide photos of the scar on the replacement knee, and the knee brace worn on the other knee which also needs replacing.  Should these photos be sent with this appeal?

"I am appealing the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the registered keeper of the vehicle.  The driver of the vehicle has not been identified, and I decline to identify the driver as there is no legal obligation to do so.  The burden of proof lies with Parkingeye Ltd to demonstrate that I, as the keeper, was also the driver at the time of the alleged incident, and you have failed to do so.  I am appealing this charge on the following grounds:

1   Background

At the time of the alleged incident, the driver of the vehicle was attempting to park for a 48-hour period, having previously parked at this car park for a similar term a number of years ago.

The driver is mobility impaired as a result of having a knee replacement, needs a stick to walk and is currently in the process of arranging for a second knee replacement operation.  The driver therefore has difficulty getting into and out of a motor vehicle and is unable to walk as quickly as a person that is not affected by those mobility issues.

On arriving at the car park, the driver found the car park to be relatively busy and had few free parking spaces.  A first space was found and the driver pulled into that space, only to find that due to the size of the space it was not possible for the driver to get out of the vehicle.  The driver therefore left that space and drove around the car park again to find another free parking space.  Again, due to the size of the space it was not possible for the driver to exit the vehicle.  The driver then left that second space and continued to drive around the car park to find the third space.  The driver was able park and was able to exit the vehicle.  The driver, having retrieved their walking stick walked to the ticket machine to pay.  There were others at the machine in front of the driver, so the driver needed to wait until those others had vacated the machine.  Whilst the parking tariffs were displayed on the machine, including a rate for 24 hours, there did not appear to be any option to buy a ticket for multiple 24-hour periods.

As a consequence of it not being clear whether or not multiple periods of 24-hours could be purchased, the driver then walked to one of the signs to see if there was any further information relating to parking duration.  There was no further information and also no confirmation whether the maximum parking period was in fact 24 hours.  Additionally, there was no indication on the sign that drivers were to be allowed a limited time in the car park before parking charges applied, nor any signage to display how long that consideration period was.

Unable to confirm that it was possible to buy two 24-hour tickets to facilitate parking for a 48-hour period, the driver decided that it would be best to leave the car park and look for an alternative long-stay car park.

Incidentally, the driver did then park in the Frenchgate Centre Rail Parking car park which is also managed by Parkingeye Ltd and parked in that car park (and paid) for the required period.

The driver has subsequently learned that Parkingeye Ltd allows the minimum period of 5 minutes for the Consideration Period for drivers to decide upon whether to accept the parking contract.  For the driver this period was wholly inadequate as a consequence of the driver’s impaired mobility.

2. The PCN Was Issued Incorrectly: Failure to Comply with the Equality Act 2010 and BPA Code of Practice

Parkingeye Ltd has failed to comply with its legal obligations under the Equality Act 2010 by not making reasonable adjustments for disabled individuals. This constitutes a breach of the British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice “The private parking sector single Code of Practice” (version 1) dated 27 June 2024, particularly Section 4 regarding disabled motorists requiring longer consideration and grace periods.

3. Failure to Establish Keeper Liability – Breach of PoFA Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i)

Parkingeye Ltd is attempting to hold me, the registered keeper, liable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), but has failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of PoFA.

Specifically, the Notice to Keeper (NtK) fails to meet the conditions set out in Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of PoFA, which mandates that the NtK must contain a clear "invitation" for the keeper to pay or provide the driver's details.  The NtK contains no such "invitation", nor any synonym of the word. Partial or even substantial compliance with PoFA is not sufficient.  Parkingeye Ltd has failed to include the required wording in the NtK, and as such, has not transferred liability from the driver to the keeper.

As the operator has not complied with PoFA, they cannot assume that the registered keeper was the driver at the time of the alleged contravention.  Parkingeye Ltd must provide strict proof that the registered keeper was the driver.  Without such proof, Parkingeye Ltd has no legal grounds to hold the keeper liable, and the PCN must be cancelled.

4. Inadequate Signage and Failure to Provide Clear Terms and Conditions

Parkingeye Ltd relies on signage to convey the terms and conditions of parking, yet the signage at this site is unclear and does not adequately inform drivers or passengers of the parking rules, including consideration and grace periods and any necessary adjustments for disabled individuals.

The BPA Code of Practice requires that signage must be clear, legible, and positioned in such a way that drivers can make informed decisions. The signage at this site does not clearly mention consideration and grace periods or provide any notice of reasonable adjustments for disabled motorists or their passengers. This lack of clarity invalidates any supposed contract with the driver, and the PCN has therefore been issued incorrectly.

5. Breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015

Parkingeye Ltd's signage, which forms the basis of their alleged contract with the driver, contains unfair terms under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA).  Section 62 of the CRA prohibits unfair terms in contracts, and Parkingeye Ltd’s signage fails to accommodate reasonable consideration and grace periods or make provisions for disabled motorists or passengers. This amounts to an unfair and unenforceable term.

Additionally, the CRA 2015 protects consumers from unfair treatment. Penalising an individual or any occupant of the vehicle for a situation caused by their disability, and for which the operator failed to make reasonable adjustments, amounts to a breach of the CRA. The terms enforced by Parkingeye Ltd place disabled individuals at a disadvantage and therefore cannot be legally upheld.

Conclusion
To summarise, this PCN has been issued incorrectly for several reasons:

Failure to comply with the Equality Act 2010 by not making reasonable adjustments for disabled motorists or passengers.

Failure to allow an appropriate consideration period as required by the BPA Code of Practice.

Breach of PoFA 2012 Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i), as the Notice to Keeper fails to meet the conditions required to transfer liability to the keeper.

Inadequate signage, which does not clearly communicate the terms or consideration and grace periods for disabled individuals, whether drivers or passengers.

Breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, due to unfair terms and failure to make necessary adjustments for disabled users.

In view of the above I request that Parkingeye Ltd cancels this PCN. 

If you do not cancel this PCN, please provide the appropriate POPLA code and take notice that the driver will be defending this matter in Court if you fail to cancel the PCN to then seek to escalate the matter to recover the alleged “debt”.

Yours faithfully,"

Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on March 03, 2025, 10:06:11 am
OK. Remind us in a few days to put together an appeal based on the information you have provided and the technical failures in their NtK.

Would it be possible for you to provide me with some draft wording to go into the appeal letter please?  I am conscious that if the appeal reveals the identity of the driver the NtK defects pretty much become irrelevant. 

My friend has said that the driver is prepared to go to court if necessary to clear this charge, being utterly appalled by the approach taken.  One thing the keeper noted was that there is no mention on the signage that ParkingEye only expect to allow 5 minutes to park.  The driver had taken longer than this to find a space which would allow exiting the car before getting to the machine and sign to find that parking over 24 hours was not allowed.  If the sign had in fact said that drivers were only allowed 5 minutes before they become liable to pay for parking, a ticket would have been purchased. 

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: DWMB2 on February 27, 2025, 03:52:20 pm
Agreed - the downside of throwing away some potential PoFA arguments is outweighed by the merits of the driver's arguments re. their mobility, in my view.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: b789 on February 27, 2025, 03:45:59 pm
In this case, yes, it is better to appeal as the driver. They will need to provide some evidence of their disability.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on February 27, 2025, 02:21:46 pm
So will it be possible to appeal without identifying the driver? 

It will only be the driver that is able to evidence the disability and so evidencing that will, by necessity, result in identification of the driver, unless evidencing the disability is not required for making the appeal.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: b789 on February 27, 2025, 01:51:41 pm
The driver’s condition is classed as a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010 (EA).

Under Section 6 of the EA 2010, a person is considered disabled if they have a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

In this case:

Physical impairment: The driver has a replacement knee, relies on a walking stick, and is awaiting another knee replacement.
Substantial effect: Mobility is clearly restricted, impacting normal activities like walking and standing.
Long-term: The condition is ongoing, with further medical intervention planned. A condition lasting 12 months or more qualifies as long-term.

Application under the EA 2010:

• The driver meets the definition of disability under the Act.
• This means they are entitled to reasonable adjustments, such as adequate disabled parking provisions and exemptions from unfair penalties where mobility limitations are a factor.

As this is related to a private parking charge, ParkingEye has a legal duty to make reasonable adjustments, and failure to do so amounts to disability discrimination.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: DWMB2 on February 27, 2025, 11:50:45 am
I'm not sure the new rule is of any relevance... That rule relates to cases where payment is made, but it takes the motorist longer than the time the operator allows.

Here the driver chose not to accept the contract on offer and left, and the argument is that due to a range of factors (discussed above), they needed longer than 5 minutes for this.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: Dave65 on February 27, 2025, 11:22:03 am
Would the 5 minutes issue come under the change in this new CoP just come out?
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on February 27, 2025, 10:35:28 am
The starting point for any appeal here will be the duration of the stay and the circumstances of the driver. From a very loose estimate there are 500+ words on that T&Cs sign.

Assuming a reading speed of 230wpm that's at least 2 minutes just to properly consider the terms of the contract. Add to that the time taken to drive in and park up in a space in what appears to be a 300 space car park, then the time taken to walk to the payment machine and T&Cs sign with limited mobility, then the time taken to walk back again having decided against parking there, and finally the time taken to drive back out.

Put all that together and a 'stay' of 9 minutes seems entirely reasonable, warranting a departure from the minimum consideration period of 5 minutes.

I note you mention the driver does not have a blue badge, but do they have any sort of diagnosis to refer to? As b789 has noted, if the driver was disabled, then once it is brought to ParkingEye's attention, an argument can be made that they should make a reasonable adjustment for this and cancel the charge.

Thanks DWMB2.  The car park was busy and almost full when they arrived.  They ended up trying two separate spaces which were too tight to for the driver to be able to get out of the car, before finding a third which was big enough to do so.  They then went to the ticket machine to find that there was no option for parking over 24 hours and then went to the sign to see if there was any mention of parking for longer periods. 

A few years ago that particular car park allowed long-term (i.e. over 24 hours) parking and the driver went there because in the past that is where they had parked when leaving the car for a few days.  Anecdotally, after they left this car park they immediately went to another nearby car park, also run by ParkingEye, and parked successfully for the duration of their 2 day visit to London.  Paying for that stay was not straightforward, but they have the receipts if for any reason they receive another PCN.

The driver has one replacement knee, walks with a stick and is on a waiting list for the other knee to be replaced.  All of this can be evidenced.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on February 27, 2025, 10:23:50 am
OK. Remind us in a few days to put together an appeal based on the information you have provided and the technical failures in their NtK.

Will do.  That would be great, thanks
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: DWMB2 on February 27, 2025, 01:01:30 am
The starting point for any appeal here will be the duration of the stay and the circumstances of the driver. From a very loose estimate there are 500+ words on that T&Cs sign.

Assuming a reading speed of 230wpm that's at least 2 minutes just to properly consider the terms of the contract. Add to that the time taken to drive in and park up in a space in what appears to be a 300 space car park, then the time taken to walk to the payment machine and T&Cs sign with limited mobility, then the time taken to walk back again having decided against parking there, and finally the time taken to drive back out.

Put all that together and a 'stay' of 9 minutes seems entirely reasonable, warranting a departure from the minimum consideration period of 5 minutes.

I note you mention the driver does not have a blue badge, but do they have any sort of diagnosis to refer to? As b789 has noted, if the driver was disabled, then once it is brought to ParkingEye's attention, an argument can be made that they should make a reasonable adjustment for this and cancel the charge.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: b789 on February 27, 2025, 12:16:54 am
OK. Remind us in a few days to put together an appeal based on the information you have provided and the technical failures in their NtK.
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on February 26, 2025, 10:02:12 pm
Just found that the car park is St James Church, Doncaster. 

However, my friend lives too far away from Doncaster to make a trip to the Church to request cancellation practical. 

The driver does not hold a Blue Badge. 
Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on February 26, 2025, 08:59:24 pm
Does your friend's "limited mobility" come under the Equality Act 2010 as a "protected characteristic"? Do they have Blue Badge?

Is the location St James Church, Doncaster? If so, can your friend go back to the church and ask someone in charge there to get Parking Eye to cancel the Parking Charge Notice (PCN)? That would be their Plan A.

There are several technical flaws with the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that can be used in any appeal or even in court. However, that is a long way off. The Keeper has until 26th March to appeal, so no rush and PE will reject any appeal anyway.

Thanks for your reply.  I do not believe they have a Blue Badge.  Knee problems mean that walking is painful and slow.

I do not know whether the car park is St James Church, Doncaster.  I will ask in case that is known.  If St James Church car park is for the Church itself, I doubt it, as they were trying to park to go on a train journey to London, so I suspect that they were looking for rail parking.  They will certainly have had no business with the Church.

Title: Re: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: b789 on February 26, 2025, 08:22:11 pm
Does your friend's "limited mobility" come under the Equality Act 2010 as a "protected characteristic"? Do they have Blue Badge?

Is the location St James Church, Doncaster? If so, can your friend go back to the church and ask someone in charge there to get Parking Eye to cancel the Parking Charge Notice (PCN)? That would be their Plan A.

There are several technical flaws with the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that can be used in any appeal or even in court. However, that is a long way off. The Keeper has until 26th March to appeal, so no rush and PE will reject any appeal anyway.
Title: Parkingeye Ltd - PCN - Overstay - Doncaster St. James
Post by: gliderpilot63 on February 26, 2025, 02:40:44 pm
Hope someone can offer some guidance so that I can help a friend who has received the below PCN from Parkingeye Ltd.

As I understand it, my friend drove into the car park and needed to stay for more than 24 hours.  Apparently it took a little while before it became clear that there was not an option to park for this length of time, so my friend left the car park.

My friend has limited mobility and it took a while to view a couple of signs and to speak to someone who advised where the nearest long-stay car park could be found.

Overall length of time in the car park was just under 10 minutes as noted on the NTK. 

Thanks in advance.[attachimg=1]

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