Perhaps I'm mistaken but I take that to mean that the OP had not ordered in advance from the store; that the store had none of the goods on display; that the store had none of the goods in their stock room; that the store had to place an order for the goods; that the OP left empty-handed.There is no store involved, the goods were being unloaded rather than loaded.
I don't agree, I think this case clearly shows that if you want to rely on a loading/unloading exemption you need to actually show up at the hearing and tell the adjudicator about what it is that you were loading or unloading.
Exactly. Particularly when, according to the adjudicator, the evidence of loading adduced by the appellant amounted to nothing more than receipts for purchases.Except of course, the civil law test is "on the balance of probabilities", so I think this adjudicator has not considered why the OP would buy stuff like this if it wasn't to be delivered to the church as stated in the representations. I still have serious doubts that TPT adjudicators are up to the job they are doing.
And so what did you do with your 36 croissants and 2 dozen cucumber sandwiches...
..well I took them straight away to the church, I can't stand cucumber!
...was missing because the appellant didn't attend.
Can you un-redact everything except name and address, please. This is not a murder trial !Indeed, and even if it were a murder trial you wouldn't want to withhold that amount of information from your legal advisers.
QuoteI will make the formal representation online on their Website
Please to post draft here for comment before submitting, but do not miss deadlines.
EDIT
I should have spotted that you have a draft in Reply#49
I will make the formal representation online on their Website
@JOJO1209 it won't make much difference to the final outcome, but I suspect H C Andersen will suggest some additional wording.And don't forget the deadline is for their receipt by the council. OK if you're submitting on-line as you get the timed and dated response.
The likelihood is that the officer dealing with the representations will not address the point because it's not as if they're going to actually look at the TRO and their templated rejection letters can't cope with this scenario, but you might get a failure to consider as an additional point to use on appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
The deadline for representations to be made is midnight on 13 February, whatever you do you must not miss that deadline, or else all is lost.
The traffic order doesn't create waiting restrictions, its component psrts are:
B Prohibitions of driving
C Prohibitions of driving
D Prohibited movements
E Weight restrictions
Loading bays
The order's a mess. What's the point of defining 'traffic sign' when traffic sign isn't mentioned subsequently?
In any event, IMO the restriction which the council are trying to enforce was not signed as required i.e. a no stopping sign as the lower panel on the PZ sign and RPZ repeater signs where no gateway signs are in situ.
Please post up all sides of the NtO, redacting only yr name & address.
No - You get a notification / acknowledgement if you do it on the on-line portal. I sent it by email as per the instruction of the staff I spoke to.Do it again via the online portal and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Have you had an acknowlegement of yr e-mail?
What is the current status on the Medway site?
They've made a real pig's ear of their signs.
PCN ******
I refer to the above and make representations as follows:
Contravention did not occur.
Well realistically the signs must be wrong: the yellow plate that says "at any time" has a no-stopping symbol rather than a no waiting one, which can't be right as that would prevent any of the shops from ever getting any deliveries.[\quote]
@CPcp8759 - That’s correct. I agree with you that cannot be right. It is a very long high street with Batchelor street in the middle. All these shops need to have deliveries to stay open and they do get regular deliveries. Also the signs are contradictory. You cannot have no stopping 24/7 and them motor vehicle entry after 5pm and before 10am.Quote from: cp8759@JOJO1209 the discount has expired so at this point you have nothing to lose, you might as well wait for the Notice to Owner, in the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order. Incidentally to get automatic notifications of replies on a thread, you need to click the "notify" icon at the bottom of the page.[\quote]
@cp8759 - As per my earlier comments /reply they have kindly agreed to re-offer the discount once I email my appeal in. I have the name of the person and agreed that I send it in for her attention.
This was Friday afternoon (6th November) when I called. I hope she will keep to her word when I send in the appeal hopefully latest today. I was just waiting to get advice from the forum experts to know the basis of what /how to make the appeal.
“Notify” is always checked / ticked when posting or replying but I never get any notification. Please can you look into it for me.
Please can you still get hold of the “Traffic Order” just in case they reject my appeal. Is this something that I can request?
Thanks
OP, hopefully you're on the ball with what's needed here: a clear photo of the sign.
The argument works in reverse IMO:
They allege you were parked in a restricted street;
It is unarguable that there weren't any yellow lines present;
Therefore the authority must establish a legal basis for dispensing with the lines;
The only argument is that they had placed a Ped and Cycle zone sign;
HOWEVER, this sign does not exempt them from placing yellow lines: they must also erect the prescribed associated plate;
They haven't (if it contains a No Stopping symbol).
QuoteI took some pictures yesterday evening and checked all the lamp post around where I parked on the high street. I cannot find any signs.You shouldn't find any signs because the entry signs govern the zone, and none are needed once the zone sign is passed. It does, however, look a complete Dog's Breakfast, and maybe a complaint to the council or to your local councillor would be another approach. All the council parking enforcement office want is your money, basically.
They could put up repeater signs, but they are not obligatory.
Matters should be peer reviewed please, in this way you get the broadest range of views.
FYI, I'll possibly have intermittent internet for the next 2 weeks as I'm abroad, so posting here is preferable pl.
We need the photos, I'm afraid that no amount of narrative would substitute. Hopefully you'll be able to post here for all to see.
I took some pictures yesterday evening and checked all the lamp post around where I parked on the high street. I cannot find any signs.You shouldn't find any signs because the entry signs govern the zone, and none are needed once the zone sign is passed. It does, however, look a complete Dog's Breakfast, and maybe a complaint to the council or to your local councillor would be another approach. All the council parking enforcement office want is your money, basically.
The signs on entering Batchelor, the signs as you leave Batchelor to enter High St, any signs within, say, 25m either side of where your car was parked.
The types of signs we're looking for:
Diagrams 1 and 2 in the Part 2 table here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/8/made
Anything with the words Restricted Parking Zone;
Signs 1 and 2 in the Part 2 table here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/5/made
Anything with item 2 in the Part 2 table here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4/made
In essence, as there aren't any yellow lines the council are relying upon entrance and repeater signs within a zone. But which type of zone and restricted hours are the issues. A Pedestrian zone or Restricted Parking zone, neither of which allows the use of No Stopping signs which GSV shows were present in the past.
If your approach was via Batchelor Street, them you should have passed these signs: -PCN served 27 Oct.
14-day statutory discount period ended 9 Nov, yesterday.
By your account you were shopping and therefore on the face of it a loading exemption would not apply.
What was your route to this location i.e. where did you pass the signs which created the restriction?
I came in through Batchelor Street turned left into the high street Barclays Bank on the corner.
I didn't see any restriction sign(s). Lots of vehicle were parked and or drove through Batchelor street and unto the High street around where I parked
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fk6Tfkt26WvG9aq5A
Note that the restriction applies on all days of the week, and there is a sign that bars stopping at any time. Are those signs still there ?
Presumably you parked somewhere here?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/u3Yb8rs5Do6hTegu9
The signs on entering Batchelor, the signs as you leave Batchelor to enter High St, any signs within, say, 25m either side of where your car was parked.
The types of signs we're looking for:
Diagrams 1 and 2 in the Part 2 table here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/8/made
Anything with the words Restricted Parking Zone;
Signs 1 and 2 in the Part 2 table here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/5/made
Anything with item 2 in the Part 2 table here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4/made
In essence, as there aren't any yellow lines the council are relying upon entrance and repeater signs within a zone. But which type of zone and restricted hours are the issues. A Pedestrian zone or Restricted Parking zone, neither of which allows the use of No Stopping signs which GSV shows were present in the past.
GSV shows clear Ped Area signs(which are moving traffic and not relevant for these purposes).
Can you return and take current photos pl. I won't go into the reasons yet, let's see the evidence first pl.
GSV (7 years old) also shows No Entry from Batchelor to High St, so it's of limited use. Can you give us a full range of photos pl?
If your approach was via Batchelor Street, them you should have passed these signs: -PCN served 27 Oct.
14-day statutory discount period ended 9 Nov, yesterday.
By your account you were shopping and therefore on the face of it a loading exemption would not apply.
What was your route to this location i.e. where did you pass the signs which created the restriction?
I came in through Batchelor Street turned left into the high street Barclays Bank on the corner.
I didn't see any restriction sign(s). Lots of vehicle were parked and or drove through Batchelor street and unto the High street around where I parked
PCN served 27 Oct.
14-day statutory discount period ended 9 Nov, yesterday.
By your account you were shopping and therefore on the face of it a loading exemption would not apply.
What was your route to this location i.e. where did you pass the signs which created the restriction?
PCN served 27 Oct.
14-day statutory discount period ended 9 Nov, yesterday.
By your account you were shopping and therefore on the face of it a loading exemption would not apply.
What was your route to this location i.e. where did you pass the signs which created the restriction?
Well it looks like a pedestrian area, but there are plenty of cars about.
Please post a GSV link to the location.
The items you collected seems to fit the loading criteria - have you itemised invoices?