Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: dk007 on June 17, 2024, 12:44:29 pm
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Doh...my misread of the calendar!
But the point remains, OP if you leave matters until the last moment then you could miss strict deadlines.
Would you post your submission pl.
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Hi,
Thanks both for your reply. I have submitted the appeal with the same grounds as last time, taken a screenshot of submission and also received the email confirmation of the appeal.
Will let you know once I receive their reply.
Thanks
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???
You received a NTO dated 26 July which you posted here on 21 August.
The latest date for making formal reps against the NTO is TODAY.
Not sure how you got to that, an NTO posted on 26 July (a Friday) is deemed served on 30 July, so the 28th day is Monday 26 August. I suggest you just reiterate your previous representations, in truth I think the council will reject no matter what you say, but there's a pretty clear-cut argument to be made on appeal to the tribunal (specifically around the ground of appeal listed on the council website).
Don't forget to take a screenshot of the confirmation page once submitted.
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???
You received a NTO dated 26 July which you posted here on 21 August.
The latest date for making formal reps against the NTO is TODAY.
Did you make reps when you received the NTO?
The letter you've posted is their response to your informal reps and nothing to do with matters now.
Get online, make formal reps(assuming the NTO is addressed to you) citing grounds of:
Procedural impropriety;
Contravention did not occur.
Procedural impropriety:
NTO was not posted on the date it was issued, 26 July being a Bank Holiday. This is contrary to regulation 20(3)(a) of the General Regs 2022.
Contravention did not occur:
I was unloading, which is an exemption from the prohibition(not mitigating circumstances but an exemption) and this could not otherwise have been performed. ***** expand on this with your own words.
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Hello Experts,
Any advice on what to do next on this one please? I might be reaching deadline for this.
Thanks
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My replies below:
OP, let's be clear about these events pl.
The vehicle was carrying a load.
The intended location for this load was inside your house or beyond and you had to carry through the house. -- Rear Garden, so had to carry it through the house.
Was the vehicle fully unloaded when the CEO issued the PCN? --No
If not, then one would expect the CEO's notes to show this because you would have shown them the remaining load, not just told them what you were doing. - He ignored anything I said and said, it is too late now.
The alternative - that you had completed unloading- and that the CEO's observations and serving of the PCN coincidentally occurred during your last trip might stretch an adjudicator's belief envelope.
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Hi, My representation was rejected and letter though dated 27/06/24 only arrived last week, I don't think I have the postal envelope to verify this. I have also received NTO couple of weeks back but could not get to post it here. I am posting both the letters here for your review and advice.
NTO:
https://imgur.com/a/IVPtAi4
https://imgur.com/a/7tZU6PR
https://imgur.com/a/PjXmkbt
https://imgur.com/a/t0zw7QP
Rejection Letter:
https://imgur.com/a/q4wNaFR
https://imgur.com/a/1bW6fKJ
https://imgur.com/a/4dqALZk
Many Thanks
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OP, let's be clear about these events pl.
The vehicle was carrying a load.
The intended location for this load was inside your house or beyond and you had to carry through the house.
Was the vehicle fully unloaded when the CEO issued the PCN?
If not, then one would expect the CEO's notes to show this because you would have shown them the remaining load, not just told them what you were doing.
The alternative - that you had completed unloading- and that the CEO's observations and serving of the PCN coincidentally occurred during your last trip might stretch an adjudicator's belief envelope.
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It's previously been held that "Attended" means within earshot, if dk007 was inside the house and out of sight I don't think that would qualify. On the facts the contravention looks made out, so we'd need a procedural impropriety to win this at the tribunal. Still, as long as you challenge the NTO within 14 days the discount should be reoffered, so it makes sense to take it that far and evaluate your chances once you have a formal notice of rejection.
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There is an exemption to the 70s Act banning off-carriageway parking if the loading could not be undertaken in any other way. However the vehicle must be attended at all times. "Attended" is not defined, but from your narrative, I think you would qualify for this exemption, what with the weight and bulk of the goods. The only downside is that if the council refuse this, you'd have to take them to London Tribunals.
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Hi, Yes, I did, This is what I wrote in my representation:
There was building work going in the house and the driveway was blocked from the back side so the vehicle could not go fully towards the main house. This can easily be seen that building material was lying on the driveway in the pictures that Enforcement officer has taken, I was only unloading some heavy items like plastering sand, screed and cement bags which were very heavy. I would like to emphasise that I was within the house and gardens the whole time if any difficulties arose. I did leave some space for pedestrians to pass but clearly this was not totally satisfactory. My sincere apologies for parking like this and it will not be repeated in future. Kindly allow my appeal.
@dk007 did you submit something? If so, please show us what you sent.
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@dk007 did you submit something? If so, please show us what you sent.
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I think you need to emphasise the heavy nature of the goods you were unloading. Also emphasise that you were within the house and gardens the whole time if any difficulties arose. Be apologetic and say you tried to leave some space for pedestrians to pass, but clearly this was not totally satisfactory.
Main thing is not to just pay-up now; submit reps and see what they say. Post their response when you get it.
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Hi, Thanks for the reply. I did see CEO when he was sticking the PCN to the car, asked him to not issue but he said it is too late now. Do i have until tomorrow to make reps and what should i write in there?
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I went inside for couple of minutes and in the meantime, i was given this PCN..
The PCN shows that the CEO observed your car for 4 minutes and it's known that printing, signing, placing in an envelope and serving on the car takes another 3-4 minutes. You also say imply that you didn't see the CEO, therefore add further time for them to depart. ....is not 'a couple of minutes'.
You are are bang-to-rights as regards the contravention so the owner only has technical and procedural options, none of which arises from a first scan of the PCN.
You protect the discount if you make reps TODAY. I'd do this even if it's only to say sorry, but get something in today.
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OK, so looking at your photos, the vehicle was mostly blocking the footway, hence the PCN. Parking off-carriageway has been an offence in London since the 70s, and needs to signs or lines. If you'd parked on the carriageway to unload you'd have been OK.
There may be a "technical" appeal argument, so wait and see what the others say. We always recommend submitting representations, even if it looks as if you are totally bang-to-rights, as they may shoot themselves in the foot when replying, and also it give us time to make further investigations. They will re-offer the discount if you submit reps within the discount period.
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google link:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3ELXXvB5vuNZW9ur6
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(https://i.https://imgur.com/ZEQTNHX.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T06Ybo5.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/W92m9aO.jpeg)
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Need to see the council photos, (if any), plus a GSV link to the exact location where you parked. A quick look shows no apparent ban on parking in the street.
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(https://i.imgur.com/jjvTodG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TZ82eNF.png)
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If you read the following thread it advises you how to add pictures to your posts using Imgur: READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!**, This section is for council, TFL, Dart/Mersey/Tyne etc. cases (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/)
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I am unable to upload any attachments as it says space is full, could someone advise how to remove previous attachments or make space in the folder.
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Hello Experts,
I have received this PCN for parking with one or more wheels on the footpath. It was on a driveway of our house where building work is going on. We had some building stuff on the driveway and I went to unload some heavy stuff and as I could not go fully on to the driveway, i had to park the car where part of it was on footpath, not fully blocking though. I went inside for couple of minutes and in the meantime, i was given this PCN. There are no parking bays on the street. Please could you advise if it can be represented? pcn copy attached.
Thanks