Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Iaali2 on May 02, 2024, 07:06:45 pm

Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on February 12, 2025, 05:42:52 pm
Thanks again for all your help.. you guys are amazing.

I weren't sure regarding the names.  But it's a great result after all the stress they gave with the debt recovery agencies persistent messages.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on February 12, 2025, 05:24:37 pm
@Iaali2 just FYI there is no requirement to redact the names of council officers, that particular chap has featured on here before.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Hippocrates on February 12, 2025, 10:45:05 am
Once returned the PCN will be cancelled due to an internal processing error.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on February 12, 2025, 10:35:18 am
Dear xxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx

 

Response to your complaint 37732816

 

Thank you for your complaint received on 11 February 2025.

 

I am xxxxx xxxxxx, Debt Recovery Team Leader for Parking Services and I have been assigned this complaint.

 

This relates to PCN number PN74869085 and the handling of the PCN since the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) issued a Revoking Order.

 

I can see that the TEC issued a Revoking Order on 24 June 2024 after you filed a Statutory Declaration under Grounds 1 "I did not receive the PCN".

The Revoking Order states that the Charge Certificate and Order for Recovery be cancelled, however this does not cancel the PCN and that the Enforcement Authority may well take further action on it. The Enforcement Authority should contact you as soon as possible if it intends to do so.

 

At this point I must make you aware that Newham Council did not receive the Court papers from the TEC until 19 August 2024, almost 2 months after the date of the order. For this reason Newham Council can not be responsible for any delay in processing this order.

 

Newham Council re-served the PCN to you on 21 August 2024, 2 days after becoming aware of it.

 

The PCN was served to the same address we had served all previous notices to, and the same address you supplied tot he TEC as your place of residence.

 

We then received a formal representation from you on 05 September 2024 via the online service. the reason for disputing the PCN is not something we cover in under the complaints procedure as there is a Statutory Appeals Procedure set under Government Legislation for this. However, I have seen that you did make it clear that you had moved address.

 

Unfortunately the responding officer failed to acknowledge this and then served their response, the Rejection Notice on 20 September 2024 to your old address. All other notices were also sent to the old address.

 

This was an error on the part of the responding officer. They should have wrote back to you explaining that due to the change of address we would be re-serving the PCN to your new address this allowing you 28 days to make a new representation.

 

In light of this error only i uphold this complaint. I have liaised with OneSource and requested that the warrant be returned. OneSource should not contact you again in respect of this PCN.

 

Once returned the PCN will be cancelled due to an internal processing error.

 

Lastly, I am aware that you have made an Access request (ref. 37655721) for information about this PCN. You will receive a separate response from the Councils Freedom of Information team in respect of this.

 

 

If you are not happy with the outcome

If you feel the issue still remains unresolved you may ask for the Corporate Complaints Team to review the situation.

Please email corporate.complaints@newham.gov.uk to explain what you are not happy about. Please specify which aspects of your complaint have not been addressed. Another Officer in the Corporate Complaints Team will then independently Review your complaint and consider solutions.

 

Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on February 07, 2025, 05:41:02 am
@cp8759  Thank you.. Have raised the SAR yesterday.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on February 06, 2025, 11:12:44 pm
@Iaali2 make a Subject Access Request (https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/getting-copies-of-your-information-subject-access-request/) to InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of all correspondence issued by the council in respect of the PCN.
@Iaali2 have you done this? If not, do it now.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on February 06, 2025, 08:27:44 pm
@Enceladus
@cp8749
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on February 06, 2025, 08:24:22 pm
Thank you for the responses.

Statutory Declaration was signed on 14th June 2024.

The response from court was 24th June 2024.

The house move was on 15th August 2024.

The LBN hadn't amended the fee on their system within the appropriate timescales as highlighted by Ivan.

The appeal on the system was sent on 05/09/2024.  Within the appeal itself the address was highlighted that it at had been changed to the new address.

On the image below you can see where the previous was highlighted. On the actual appeal the new address was typed up. So the council would have been aware. But most likely didn't even look at the appeal and just rejected it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gjvsd3crPSaXsPqpyeRA9c8U2_YGdfTp/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GeSww3AkiMs9sx0KP-ha-G3WSNelCMlE/view?usp=drivesdk
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Enceladus on February 06, 2025, 11:47:51 am
Since this has now escalated to bailiff enforcement I believe you'll now have to submit a Statutory Declaration and an Out of Time application.
Yes, but I would suggest an OOT application to the tribunal rather than the county court. A letter from the tribunal confirming the adjudicator has agreed to consider the appeal kills the warrant, the Order for Recovery and the Charge Certificate, and it saves us a lot of faffing about.
I think we need to understand further about the address that was used on the formal representation submitted around the 5th Sep 2024.

Was the address used current and correct?
Was it the same address as used on the re-issued PCN in Aug 2024
Did the Registered Keeper change address again after the 5th Sep 2024?
and if so
Were Newham informed of the new address?
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on February 06, 2025, 09:19:07 am
Since this has now escalated to bailiff enforcement I believe you'll now have to submit a Statutory Declaration and an Out of Time application.
Yes, but I would suggest an OOT application to the tribunal rather than the county court. A letter from the tribunal confirming the adjudicator has agreed to consider the appeal kills the warrant, the Order for Recovery and the Charge Certificate, and it saves us a lot of faffing about.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Neil B on February 06, 2025, 07:36:16 am
@NeilB Can you help with this one please?
Others seem to have it hand and I'm a bit busy with medical appointments, soz.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Enceladus on February 06, 2025, 03:20:04 am
This time you seem to be missing a Notice of Rejection issued sometime on or before 8th Oct 2024, a subsequent Charge Certificate for £195, an Order for Recovery for £205 and a bailiff's Notice of Enforcement for £280.

Was the address you used on the formal representation of Sep 5th correct and current? Did the RK move address after Sep 5th 2024?

Since this has now escalated to bailiff enforcement I believe you'll now have to submit a Statutory Declaration and an Out of Time application. You can use the ground of non-receipt of the Notice of Rejection which if accepted would force the matter before the Adjudicator, even though the new PCN was out of time and invalid.

But don't try submitting anything until it's reviewed on the forum. It's vital you get the OOT application right or Newham will object.

Or consult with Bailiff Advice Online for advice. (https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/)
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on February 05, 2025, 11:26:39 pm
@Iaali2 make a Subject Access Request (https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/getting-copies-of-your-information-subject-access-request/) to InformationRightsTeam@newham.gov.uk asking for a copy of all correspondence issued by the council in respect of the PCN.

If you can get Newham to answer the phone and tell you if / when a Notice of Rejection was issued (and ideally email it over to you) that's even better, but you must put the SAR in writing as that's the only way to force them to email you a copy.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Hippocrates on February 05, 2025, 09:04:53 pm
@NeilB Can you help with this one please?
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on February 05, 2025, 08:55:50 pm
Update on this one, the council have ignored/or rejected the appeal.  An SMS was received from a debt collection agency.  When the council website was reviewed it was showing £205.  The debt agency are suggesting the balance with them is £285.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GIDzHrCGHtn8j94RCu6AsWjXw4iPHdcl/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GE7zX1SAKpCOBUGlOZu1q6UbfuGCqKaS/view?usp=drivesdk

Issue is address has changed since the original correspondence. This has also been changed on the logbook. Not sure what steps can be taken to resolve this now.

@cp8759
@Neil B
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on October 08, 2024, 09:45:37 pm
Thank You..
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on October 08, 2024, 09:30:13 pm
@Iaali2 the council computer just does that automatically, you need to wait for the representation to be responded to. Your representation won't have been looked at yet.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on October 08, 2024, 12:45:33 pm
@cp8759.cp8759@gmail.com
@cp8759
@Hippocrates

Didn't receive any letters,  but they've increased the funds again.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on October 08, 2024, 12:38:09 pm
Yes,

But it seems they haven't accepted it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MUS4tfs3wdnzDsQ1ggQu_V-mJdH-cl4C/view?usp=drivesdk

The fine has now been moved to £130 again
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Hippocrates on September 05, 2024, 11:50:54 am
You wrote what CP said?
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on September 05, 2024, 11:40:03 am
 Formal representation has been made.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CGB1lVuovnx1hgEEV8L2r1VLdSq44noU/view?usp=drivesdk

Fingers crossed 🤞
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Hippocrates on August 27, 2024, 01:59:23 pm
+1 plus their grounds:

Enter Your Notice Details
Please refer to the 'Notice to Owner' letter for guidance when completing this online representation form.

Representation Reason

Select an option which represents your reason for challenging this notice.

A

The alleged Contravention did not occur
B
I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of contravention

As I had sold the vehicle before that date

As I had bought the vehicle after that date

As I have never owned that vehicle
C

The vehicle was taken without my consent
D

We are a hire firm and have supplied details
E

The Penalty Charge exceeds the relevant amount
F

There has been a procedural impropriety by the Enforcement Authority
G

The traffic order contravened is invalid
H

The Notice should not have been served because the Penalty Charge had already been paid
I

Other
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on August 26, 2024, 02:47:43 pm
@Iaali2 this is very simple, go to https://parking.newham.gov.uk/ and make the following representation:

Dear London Borough of Newham,

The County Court issued a revoking order which was served on you on 26 June 2024, so you had 28 days from that date to serve a fresh PCN. That 28 day period expired on 23 July but a new PCN was issued on 21 August, so it was served on 23 August which is one month out of time.

In light of this the penalty charge notice you have now reissued is invalid and must be cancelled. At risk of stating the obvious, if you issue a templated notice of rejection that doesn't deal with this at all and simply drones on and on about the contravention, then I will file an appeal and contend that your notice of rejection is wholly unreasonable. This is because no reasonable authority which properly applied its mined to the issue of the limitation period could come to the conclusion that the PCN issued on 21 August was not out of time, indeed such a decision would be Wednesbury unreasonable.

A decision that is Wednesbury unreasonable is wholly unreasonable, therefore if you issue a notice of rejection forcing me to take this matter to the tribunal, I will contend that the tribunal should award me the costs of the proceedings. I will require you to pay my costs even if you do not contest the appeal.

Yours faithfully,

Keep a screenshot of the confirmation page and let's see how they respond.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on August 26, 2024, 02:39:35 pm
@cp8759 @cp8759.cp8759@gmail.com

They have finally changed it back to £65 and issued the new PCN. (See below). Does the timescale make it invalid?? And how would she go about the appeal?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/170VxInOgHv9zxJNh2FN0zKxZgfZ8CXHe/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/171Xxl3Y4dEytE0m6ujgc7bMUDz3HdThT/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/178vuocQoQ4nom9QsbdrMIrJ8xZlyiCma/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/179UzE9u8cATBtmfdoIvPdv7r8zZ3bnsl/view?usp=drivesdk

Many thanks as always

Kind Regards

Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on July 25, 2024, 10:32:22 pm
@Iaali2 if the PCN has not gone down to £65 then the council has missed the deadline to serve a new PCN, so any further PCN they might serve would be out of time.

I would suggest forcing their hand by making a formal complaint about the lack of progress.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on July 01, 2024, 01:17:09 pm
For later, here's The Newham (Pedestrian and Cycle Zone) (No. 5) Traffic Order 2022 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vT3qe6FMcBsOA0Ok_bTpY2d20snD9O2Q/view).
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on June 29, 2024, 01:54:17 pm
I'd be a bit more proactive than that. The revoking order was served on 26 June, so the council has until 23 July to serve a new penalty charge notice.

Keep an eye on the outstanding amount on https://parking.newham.gov.uk/ (it's still showing as £205 today) and let us know if it changes to £65. If it does, you might as well make representations against the original PCN (you can make representations even if the physical PCN has not been received yet, as long as you know that it's been issued).

In the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: mdann52 on June 28, 2024, 01:22:08 pm
You now wait and see what the council do
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on June 28, 2024, 12:50:30 pm
This has now been received from the county court


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M3lzCzGtfBEXJByLV04y8SyUo7Qzucc5/view?usp=drivesdk

What's the next step? Or is it best she pays the original fine?
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on May 27, 2024, 03:59:03 pm
@Iaali2 that's not a statutory document for the next steps, it's a scare-letter design to make you give up and pay.

You need to ignore it and follow the instructions here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/

Do not contact the council.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on May 22, 2024, 07:00:14 am
Letter has been received for the next stage.  Attached

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on May 02, 2024, 11:10:38 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if they weren't,  but I know Royal Mail isn't running as efficiently as in the past too
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Incandescent on May 02, 2024, 10:58:13 pm
Is it just me, or are we seeing rather a lot of cases where the first document received is the CC ? Receiving the CC implies the V5 address is correct, so one has to wonder what happened to the other statutory documents.  Were they even sent out at all ?
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: cp8759 on May 02, 2024, 08:42:32 pm
@Iaali2 she needs to follow the steps detailed here: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/

Once the traffic enforcement centre has issued the revoking order let us know and we'll explain the next steps.
Title: Re: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on May 02, 2024, 07:13:46 pm
Sorry,  forgot to add location

https://maps.app.goo.gl/XdozRKGbj1gfVp978

And stills of video attached



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: RE: LBN Code 53J Entering Pedestrian Zone - Charge Certificate
Post by: Iaali2 on May 02, 2024, 07:06:45 pm
Hi,

Sending for a friend. They have just received a Charge Certificate for £195.00 for entering a Pedestrian Zone (School No Vehicle Area).

She was surprised to find it was £195.00 but had not received the initial PCNs.

She has since reviewed the footage and went into the road to turn around 3 point turn.

Is there anything that can be done with this?




[attachment deleted by admin]