Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: DohRay on April 28, 2024, 05:41:13 pm

Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DWMB2 on October 08, 2025, 02:02:55 pm
Let's play nicely kids.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: copperband on October 08, 2025, 01:28:28 pm
It is usually just before they have to pay the trial fee which is around 4 weeks before any hearing date.
Just before being the day before or a few weeks?
With my case, I absolutely don't want to pay the £27 as its non refundable in the even that they cancel the ticket at the last minute. If they go ahead and take the case to court then at least I can claim the £27 back when I win.
Thanks in advance.
What £27?
The fee is payable by the claimant, not by you.
And please start your own thread rather than hijacking someone else’s thread.
A rather aggressive response, I'm not sure why? I simply asked a question pertaining to timing. Not hijacking a thread at all. Note, that it was yourself that pointed out that the original poster had not visited for over 2 months :-X
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: jfollows on October 08, 2025, 11:16:35 am
It is usually just before they have to pay the trial fee which is around 4 weeks before any hearing date.
Just before being the day before or a few weeks?
With my case, I absolutely don't want to pay the £27 as its non refundable in the even that they cancel the ticket at the last minute. If they go ahead and take the case to court then at least I can claim the £27 back when I win.
Thanks in advance.
What £27?
The fee is payable by the claimant, not by you.
And please start your own thread rather than hijacking someone else’s thread.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: copperband on October 08, 2025, 11:14:46 am
It is usually just before they have to pay the trial fee which is around 4 weeks before any hearing date.
Just before being the day before or a few weeks?
With my case, I absolutely don't want to pay the £27 as its non refundable in the even that they cancel the ticket at the last minute. If they go ahead and take the case to court then at least I can claim the £27 back when I win.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on October 07, 2025, 10:42:40 am
It is usually just before they have to pay the trial fee which is around 4 weeks before any hearing date.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: jfollows on October 07, 2025, 09:19:48 am
I think you will find that the original poster has not returned to the forum since 6 August.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: copperband on October 07, 2025, 08:44:11 am
As this is a DCB Legal issued claim, I would place money on them discontinuing just before they have to pay the £27 trial fee.
Well what a surprise - I just received this:
    Our client has instructed us to discontinue Court proceedings and close our file.
Exactly as you predicted.

Thank you for the help, the guidance, and the reassurance that everything was on track.

Do you mind me asking how close to the deadline they left it to notify you than they were discontinuing?
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on August 06, 2025, 06:10:58 pm
Well done for persevering. Can you please post a copy of the N279 Notice of Discontinuation.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on August 06, 2025, 05:44:59 pm
As this is a DCB Legal issued claim, I would place money on them discontinuing just before they have to pay the £27 trial fee.
Well what a surprise - I just received this:
    Our client has instructed us to discontinue Court proceedings and close our file.
Exactly as you predicted.

Thank you for the help, the guidance, and the reassurance that everything was on track.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on June 18, 2025, 10:01:28 am
It means that each party has to send to the court (and a copy to each other) everything they are relying on. So, in your case, this would be your Witness Statement (WS) and any evidence you are relying on. You do not need to send copies of anything you've already sent, such as your N180 DQ or other forms you may have completed.

However, you need to carefully read the order. There will be 3 critical dates you need to note. The first if the date of the hearing. The second is the date by which the claimant must pay the trial fee of £27 and the third is the deadline for submitting your WS and evidence. Often, that third date is not obvious and can be hidden with wording such as "no later tea 14 days before the hearing date".

As this is a DCB Legal issued claim, I would place money on them discontinuing just before they have to pay the £27 trial fee. However, depending on which local county court it has been allocated to, the actual dates for bundle submission, trial fee and the hearing can vary wildly. I would not advise submitting your WS unless the claimant submits one first, even if it means missing the deadline quoted on the order. It does not really matter in the small claims track if a lay persons WS is submitted a few days late.

There is no point wasting your time on a WS if the claimant is going to discontinue. If they are going to discontinue, they will not bother with their own WS anyway.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on June 17, 2025, 08:34:28 pm
N157 Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (hearing)

...blah blah...a date in September...blah blah




I think the only bit that's not entirely clear is
Quote
5) Each party must send to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing.
Does that mean to re-send everything that's already been sent?
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on April 21, 2025, 05:00:05 pm
No. The mediation is not part of the judicial process and there is no judge or anyone with any legal training involved.

The only legal requirement is to attend the call. There is no obligation to do anything else and it is without prejudice.

All you do is offer £0 and it will be over within minutes. It will have no bearing on anything going forwards.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on April 21, 2025, 04:42:37 pm
Ugh, now I have a call scheduled with a mediator.  Unless you say otherwise, I'm assuming that I simply have to repeat the points which were made in the rebuttal.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on April 04, 2025, 03:04:38 pm
As expected. It is a boilerplate response. No need to show the actual letter.

You are now waiting for a copy of their N180 Directions Questionnaire (DQ). You can check your MCOL history for when yours has been sent out. No need to wait for it. Just follow these instructions for yours:

Quote
Having received your own N180 (make sure it is not simply a copy of the claimants N180), do not use the paper form. Ignore all the other forms that came with it. you can discard those. Download your own here and fill it in on your computer. You sign it by simply typing your full name in the signature box.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/673341e779e9143625613543/N180_1124.pdf

Here are the answers to some of the less obvious questions:

• The name of the court is "Civil National Business Centre".

• To be completed by "Your full name" and you are the "Defendant".

• C1: "YES"

• D1: "NO". Reason: "I wish to question the Claimant about their evidence at a hearing in person and to expose omissions and any misleading or incorrect evidence or assertions.
Given the Claimant is a firm who complete cut & paste parking case paperwork for a living, having this case heard solely on papers would appear to put the Claimant at an unfair advantage, especially as they would no doubt prefer the Defendant not to have the opportunity to expose the issues in the Claimants template submissions or speak as the only true witness to events in question
.."

• F1: Whichever is your nearest county court. Use this to find it: https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/search-option

• F3: "1".

• Sign the form by simply typing your full name for the signature.

When you have completed the form, attach it to a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself. Make sure that the claim number is in the subject field of the email.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on April 04, 2025, 01:48:07 pm
And now a reply from DCB Legal:
Having reviewed the content of your defence, we write to inform you that our client intends to proceed with the claim.


In due course, the Court will direct both parties to each file a directions questionnaire. In preparation for that, please find attached a copy of the Claimant's, which we confirm has been filed with the Court.


Without Prejudice to the above, in order to assist the Court in achieving its overriding objective, our client may be prepared to settle this case - in the event you wish to discuss settlement, please call us on 0203 434 0433 within 7 days and make immediate reference to this correspondence.


If you have provided an email address within your Defence, we intend to use it for service of documents (usually in PDF format) hereon in pursuant to PD 6A (4.1)(2)(c). Please advise whether there are any limitations to this (for example, the format in which documents are to be sent and the maximum size of attachments that may be received). Unless you advise otherwise, we will assume not.


Kind Regards,


Shaun Arrowsmith

Litigation support Associate

DCB Legal Ltd
I shall add the attachment later.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on March 04, 2025, 11:05:46 pm
Send it again and also take a screen shot of the document with the typed signature and refer them CPR 5.3...

The relevant Civil Procedure Rule (CPR) that allows a statement of truth or court document to be signed by typing the person's name is CPR 5.3.

CPR 5.3 – Signature of Documents

“Where any of these Rules or any practice direction requires a document to be signed, that requirement shall be satisfied if the signature is printed by computer or other mechanical means.”

This means that typing a name, rather than providing a handwritten signature, is sufficient for compliance with the requirement to sign a document under the CPR, including a Statement of Truth.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on March 04, 2025, 08:53:05 pm
Quote
I have had a response
From whom? The court?
From ClaimResponses.CNBC, yes.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DWMB2 on March 04, 2025, 07:53:51 pm
Quote
I have had a response
From whom? The court?
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on March 04, 2025, 07:43:51 pm
You sign the defence by typing your full name for the signature and date it.
I did that, but I have had a response: "We have processed your response. Please note however, it was not signed and because of this it may not be considered as a valid document if the case goes to a court hearing."

I have double-checked, and it definitely has my name (my full name, as it appears on my driving licence and passport) next to the word "Signed", thus:
Quote
Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed: my name here

Date: 28th February 2025
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on February 28, 2025, 09:27:39 am
Got it.
Sent.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on February 28, 2025, 07:26:38 am
Yes, by email only. DO NOT ise the MCOL we form as that has a character limitation had loses all formatting.

Please follow our advice for submitting the defence.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on February 28, 2025, 06:31:38 am
Specifically by email, rather than (as per the instructions in the claim) through their moneyclaim.gov.uk website?
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on February 27, 2025, 01:45:50 pm
With an issue date of 21st February, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 12th March to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Wednesday 26th March to submit your defence.

If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Otherwise, here is the defence and link to the draft order that goes with it. You only need to edit your name and the claim number. You sign the defence by typing your full name for the signature and date it. There is nothing to edit in the draft order.

When you're ready you combine both documents as a single PDF attachment and send as an attachment in an email to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and CC in yourself. The claim number must be in the email subject field and in the body of the email just put: "Please find attached the defence and draft order in the matter of I Park Services Ltd v [your full name] Claim no.: [claim number]."

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

I Park Services Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16(7.5);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts)

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant attaches to this defence a copy of a draft order approved by a district judge at another court. The court struck out the claim of its own initiative after determining that the Particulars of Claim failed to comply with CPR 16.4. The judge noted that the claimant had failed to:

(i) Set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions relied upon;

(ii) Adequately explain the reasons why the defendant was allegedly in breach of contract;

(iii) Provide separate, detailed Particulars of Claim as permitted under CPR PD 7C.5.2(2).

(iv) The court further observed that, given the modest sum claimed, requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, the judge struck out the claim outright rather
than permitting an amendment.

5. The Defendant submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim for the Claimant’s failure to comply with CPR 16.4.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

Draft Order for the defence (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tcewefk7daozuje25chkl/Strikeout-order-v2.pdf?rlkey=wxnymo8mwcma2jj8xihjm7pdx&st=nbtf0cn6&dl=0)
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on February 27, 2025, 09:26:40 am
What is the issue date?
21st Feb 2025.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on February 27, 2025, 12:06:30 am
W only need to see the N1SDT claim form with the Particulars of Claim (PoC). You can delete all the other forms as you will not be using them. However, for some reason you have redacted the issue date of the claim.

What is the issue date?
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on February 26, 2025, 08:50:08 pm
Here's the claim.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on January 15, 2025, 07:58:34 pm
You can report them to HMRC for VAT fraud. Takes a few minutes online. Otherwise, you’re now waiting for the inevitable claim. Show us when it arrives and we will advise on how to deal with.

As already explained, this will end in a discontinuation if you follow the advice.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on January 15, 2025, 06:01:38 pm
Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,

We write in response to your correspondence received in our office dated 19/12/2024.

We now respond to the same as follows.

The Notice to Keeper was issued to you on 17/04/2024. A copy is enclosed. You were afforded the opportunity to; appeal the parking charge, transfer liability to the driver (if it was not you) or make payment. Neither a successful appeal, nor an adequate nomination were received, yet payment remains outstanding The Vehicle entered Mere Green Pay and Display, Sutton Coldfield, B74 4BH on the 13/04/2024, No valid pay and display or prepay arrangement. The parking charge was issued correctly. The parking charge was issued due to breach of contract and not for loss or damages. See enclosed Appeal and response, Vehicle Images, Landowner Agreement, Signs and Site Plan

The Reminder Notices were issued to you on the 17/05/2024 and 15/07/2024. Copies are enclosed. These notice's reiterated that payment was outstanding and confirmed that legal action may be taken and additional costs incurred if the parking charge was not paid.

The HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that parking charge notices falls out of the scope of VAT.

You now have 30 days from the date of this email to make a payment of £160.00. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference.

Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account: -

    Account Name: DCB Legal Ltd Client Account 

    Sort Code: 20-24-09 

    Account Number: 60964441


You must quote the correct case reference (XXXXXXXXXXXX) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred.

Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 838 7038 to make payment over the telephone or online at https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/.

Kind Regards,

Lorraine Boardman

Administration Associate

DCB Legal Ltd
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on January 12, 2025, 09:27:22 am
How can they charge one for a 2 mon period?

they can't but that doesn't stop the ex-clampers from trying it on. There are enough low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree out there that it makes them a tidy profit.

Please start your won thread if you want advice on how to deal with these scammers.

READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on January 11, 2025, 07:03:22 pm
I have the same issue you had at this same parking location. I was literally in there for less than 3 mins at night and they issue me with a parking charge. I have already appealed on their website and waiting for the standard response. The pictures seem to suggest I left the car but it was actually my wife that left the car while I remained in the driving seat with the engine on while she checked the parking fees before we decided to go elsewhere after our dinner reservation at the restaurant adjacent to it was cancelled. How can they charge one for a 2 mon period?
As with mine, read https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/ and follow what it says.  It might be similar to mine, or it might differ in small but crucial details, something you or I might overlook but that the keener eyes might pick up.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: nikolaivisch on January 11, 2025, 02:47:07 pm
Many thanks for the clarifications.  I shall get the letter sent forthwith, and shall update you with any response that I receive.
Newbie here, I was searching the web and found this forum. I have the same issue you had at this same parking location. I was literally in there for less than 3 mins at night and they issue me with a parking charge. I have already appealed on their website and waiting for the standard response. The pictures seem to suggest I left the car but it was actually my wife that left the car while I remained in the driving seat with the engine on while she checked the parking fees before we decided to go elsewhere after our dinner reservation at the restaurant adjacent to it was cancelled. How can they charge one for a 2 mon period?
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on December 16, 2024, 01:45:50 pm
Many thanks for the clarifications.  I shall get the letter sent forthwith, and shall update you with any response that I receive.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DWMB2 on December 16, 2024, 01:41:17 pm
I'm not overly concerned about people including it if they want to, I'm just keen that they're aware of what they are including.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on December 16, 2024, 01:39:00 pm
I've asked a judge what would be their reaction if a DCB Legal issued claim ever actually made it in front of them at a hearing and a copy of the response to the LoC was introduced as evidence (of what?). I will let you know their response.

As above, just change the £70 to £60. Also, it is, as @DWMB2 says, not likely ever going to get as far as a hearing. My money is on a discontinuation some time next year.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DWMB2 on December 16, 2024, 01:30:53 pm
P.S. Slightly more seriously, where did the £70 come from? The uplift appears to be from an original £100 to a figure now of £160.  Indeed, the additional £60 was added between I Park's letter of 17th May and their letter of 17th June.  Also, I see no reference to VAT beyond their VAT registration number at the bottom of the page, so is that definitely still going to be an effective argument?
If they've added £60 rather than £70 to the £100, then amend the draft accordingly, the context is the same.

Whether or not you refer to Arkell v. Pressdram is your choice. Whilst the chances of this ever reaching a court hearing are incredibly low (based on DCB Legal's track record), I personally take the approach of asking myself if I would be happy for a judge to see anything that I write, and if it were me, I'd leave it out. I accept that's a matter of personal choice, however, b789 if you are including it in drafts you're suggesting people send, do please advise them to read any cases referenced before they send anything (although people ought to be doing that anyway).
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on December 16, 2024, 01:13:31 pm
Reply with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,
  ....
Dear Sir/Madam,


I acknowledge receipt of your template response which you advise that I send to DCB Legal.  However, prior to printing and posting it, I did take the opportunity to read the contents most carefully.  One detail did catch my eye, namely the reference to Arkell v Pressdram, with which I had hitherto been unfamiliar.  On researching further, I regret to inform you that the coffee which I had been consuming at that moment was caused to become projected across the computer keyboard at which I was sitting. 
Consequently, I shall be pursuing remedy for the loss, not only of the coffee but also of the keyboard, which is no longer functional, and of my dignity, as part of the coffee was ejected through my nose, in full presence of my family, who were caused temporary consternation at my outburst, fearing for my health.  My health, I can assure you, remains intact, unlike the other named items.


Yours etc,

Ray, Doh (Mr)


P.S. Slightly more seriously, where did the £70 come from? The uplift appears to be from an original £100 to a figure now of £160.  Indeed, the additional £60 was added between I Park's letter of 17th May and their letter of 17th June.  Also, I see no reference to VAT beyond their VAT registration number at the bottom of the page, so is that definitely still going to be an effective argument?
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on December 14, 2024, 11:23:08 pm
Reply with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Letter of Claim dated 6th December 2024

I refer to your Letter of Claim.

I confirm that my address for service at this time is as follows, and I request that any outdated address be erased from your records to ensure compliance with data protection obligations:

[YOUR ADDRESS]

Please note that the alleged debt is disputed, and any court proceedings will be robustly defended.

I note that the sum claimed has been increased by an excessive and unjustifiable amount, which appears contrary to the principles established by the Government, who described such practices as “extorting money from motorists”. Please refrain from sending boilerplate responses or justifications regarding this issue.

Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I require specific answers to the following questions:

1. Does the additional £70 represent what you describe as a “Debt Recovery” fee? If so, is this figure net of or inclusive of VAT? If inclusive, I trust you will explain why I, as the alleged debtor, am being asked to cover your client’s VAT liability.

2. Regarding the principal sum of the alleged Parking Charge Notice (PCN): Is this being claimed as damages for breach of contract, or will it be pleaded as consideration for a purported parking contract?

I would caution you against simply dismissing these questions with vague or boilerplate responses, as I am fully aware of the implications. By claiming that PCNs are exempt from VAT while simultaneously inflating the debt recovery element, your client – with your assistance – appears to be evading VAT obligations due to HMRC. Such mendacious conduct raises serious questions about the legality and ethics of your practices.

I strongly advise your client to cease and desist. Should this matter proceed to court, you can be assured that these issues will be brought to the court’s attention, alongside a robust defence and potentially a counterclaim for unreasonable conduct.

Finally, I would draw your attention to the response in Arkell v Pressdram, which remains pertinent to this matter.

Yours faithfully,


[YOUR NAME]
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on December 14, 2024, 08:04:35 pm
Exactly as you said it would.[attach=1][attach=2]

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on August 20, 2024, 10:18:14 pm
DCBL are just useless debt collectors and you must ignore them.

A real LoC will come from a solicitor, DCB Legsl in this case, and will give you 30 days to pay,  it the 14 that debt collectors try on.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on August 20, 2024, 08:30:03 pm
Things have moved from I Park to DBCL.  This one still doesn't look like a "Letter of Claim", though (it calls itself a Notice of Debt Recovery), so I shall continue to wait for that.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on May 21, 2024, 02:07:43 am
You’re just going to have to weather this and the upcoming debt collector letters from DCBLtd. If/when you receive a Letter of Claim from DCB Legal, come back for your next step.

You can safely ignore all final reminders and debt collection letters. Just file them away.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on May 20, 2024, 08:13:45 pm
Update with the first reminder letter.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on May 06, 2024, 11:17:57 am
I understand your point. Again, this is all academic at this stage.

As I Park Services farm their litigation out to DCB Legal, it would never reach the hearing stage if the OP follows the advice and defends any claim using the robust defence template. A DCB Legal Notice of Discontinuation is the most likely outcome of this.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DWMB2 on May 06, 2024, 09:49:23 am
I don't necessarily disagree, I'm just thinking of arguments one would need to make. If you get a less amenable judge, it's somewhat easier to make the period of parking argument where an overstay is alleged.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on May 06, 2024, 12:12:12 am
I don't think it really matters. The evidence provided does not show a "period of parking". The vehicle could have stopped and the driver was considering the terms before deciding whether to park or not. If the driver decided not to park there and then driven off, there was no "period of parking".

If the driver had simply stopped there to load or unload a passenger, there is no evidence of a "period of parking". A singular date and time is not a "period of parking". There has to be a start and end time for there to have been a "period".

The NtK has to show a "period of parking" for there to have been a breach of the terms, whether it was not purchasing a permit or not parking in a bay or whatever. It does not. It only mentions a "period of parking" without proper reference to an actual "period".

As I Park Services are IPC members, it will matter not and only a judge would be able to arbiter on that point. The NtK is not PoFA compliant for failing to specify the "period of parking".
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DWMB2 on May 05, 2024, 11:50:23 pm
Quote
As an aside, a claim with a similar NtK that did not specify a "period of parking" was dismissed at court because it does not specify a "period of parking"
I wonder if that case was strengthened by the fact that the charge was issued for an alleged overstay, which rather necessitates a start and end time to demonstrate.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on May 05, 2024, 10:43:24 pm
In terms of the contravention itself, the length of time the driver was there, and what they did during that time, would be the main points of consideration. That they weren't there for long is in their favour. That they stayed to make a phone call before leaving potentially isn't.

As b789 notes, keep an eye out for any correspondence that is marked Letter Before Claim or similar, as this needs attention. Debt collectors in the meantime do not.
This will end up as a claim issued by DCB Legal and can be easily defended. They will discontinue before any hearing.

My advice, ignore them until you receive a Letter of Claim from DCB Legal. Ignore all debt collector letters from I Park Services and DCB Ltd.

Let us know when you get your LoC and a suitable response can be provided. It really is not worth the effort dealing with these cowboys.
Thank you, that gives me clear direction on how to go forward.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on May 05, 2024, 10:05:48 pm
As an aside, a claim with a similar NtK that did not specify a "period of parking" was dismissed at court because it does not specify a "period of parking". It should state parking from ....  to .... not just parked at .... time as it is in theNtK below. The judge stated that the claim was dismissed because the NtK was not compliant with  PoFA 9 (2)(a). She said it only had an "incident time" and did not mentioned how long vehicle was parked there.

(https://i.imgur.com/u2mfdcV.jpeg)

PoFA 9(2)(a) and (b) apply:

9(1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2) The notice must

(a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

(b) inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DWMB2 on May 05, 2024, 10:04:19 pm
In terms of the contravention itself, the length of time the driver was there, and what they did during that time, would be the main points of consideration. That they weren't there for long is in their favour. That they stayed to make a phone call before leaving potentially isn't.

As b789 notes, keep an eye out for any correspondence that is marked Letter Before Claim or similar, as this needs attention. Debt collectors in the meantime do not.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on May 05, 2024, 09:51:21 pm
This will end up as a claim issued by DCB Legal and can be easily defended. They will discontinue before any hearing.

My advice, ignore them until you receive a Letter of Claim from DCB Legal. Ignore all debt collector letters from I Park Services and DCB Ltd.

Let us know when you get your LoC and a suitable response can be provided. It really is not worth the effort dealing with these cowboys.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on May 05, 2024, 08:54:05 pm
I contend that the driver did not actually leave the vehicle,

Rather undermines any defence IMO because they ARE required to leave and look for and consider the Ts and Cs of parking which, unless known by them prior to this event, could only be determined by reading the Ts and Cs signs. Simply sitting in a car would not IMO entitle the keeper to rely upon the defence of minimum 'consideration' period.

I therefore wouldn't contend this.
You misunderstand what I'm saying

I'm saying that they cannot claim that the driver must pay before leaving the vehicle and then be able to claim that simply stepping out of the vehicle constitutes "leaving" it, because of what you say. Therefore, I claim that the driver did not "leave the vehicle" despite stepping out of it, as they were in the immediate vicinity of it, within the car park, checking signage etc.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on May 05, 2024, 08:51:25 pm
Pictures (5-7 of 7) embedded in the reply PDF.

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Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on May 05, 2024, 08:50:51 pm
Pictures (1-4 of 7) embedded in the reply PDF.

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Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on May 05, 2024, 08:49:37 pm
Their reply. It was sent as a PDF, and I have neither the tools nor the skills to redact details from a PDF and then attach it.

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Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on May 05, 2024, 08:48:13 pm
PCN

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Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: b789 on April 29, 2024, 06:34:19 pm
I am already dealing with a claim from I Park Services at this location. Interestingly, the NtK sent for that one was actually labelled "Non-PoFA". Not that that has prevented them trying to claim keeper liability in their reminders.

(https://i.imgur.com/PI9aNFp.jpeg)

Aside from that, the signage at this location is abysmal and does not conform to the requirements of their ATA, the IPC. However, as their NtK is PoFA compliant, there iso not much you can do except wait for the inevitable debt collection correspondence from DCBL and eventually, an LoC from DCB Legal and then a claim.

In the case I'm handling at the moment, after submitting the standard, robust defence, we are currently waiting for the inevitable discontinuation notice.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: H C Andersen on April 29, 2024, 08:13:22 am
I contend that the driver did not actually leave the vehicle,

Rather undermines any defence IMO because they ARE required to leave and look for and consider the Ts and Cs of parking which, unless known by them prior to this event, could only be determined by reading the Ts and Cs signs. Simply sitting in a car would not IMO entitle the keeper to rely upon the defence of minimum 'consideration' period.

I therefore wouldn't contend this.

Pl reinstate the dates and times in the PCN and the photo of the car so we can see whether a period of parking is stated in the notice and also whether the photo simply shows the car parked. Also, post their reply letter, do not cut and paste.

Remember, it's the creditor's burden to prove the breach IN THE PCN so until you've reinstated the redacted info in the PCN and we've been able to decide what defence, if any, could be available and a way forward the less you write the better IMO. And pl post all other photos and their so-called evidence, don't describe.
Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on April 28, 2024, 09:05:02 pm
The phone call lasted 2:57 - just long enough to get directions to where they were supposed to have been going.
From entry to exit, the car was in the car park for around 6 minutes, including that call. Photographs in their reply to the appeal all show timestamps within a 6 minute window. The PCN only gives a single time, not a range or duration.

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Title: Re: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DWMB2 on April 28, 2024, 05:58:44 pm
We could do with seeing the whole parking charge notice, with only personal details, PCN number and the vehicle VRM redacted, rather than the small section uploaded.

How long was the vehicle there? One issue you may face is your version of events - drivers are allowed a 'consideration period' to review the terms and conditions of parking and decide whether to accept them and park, or reject them and leave - however the version of events put forward in your appeal suggests that having reviewed the signage, they chose to remain there to complete a phone call before leaving. How long the vehicle was there might be useful.

The IAS is a bit of a kangaroo court who seem to rarely accept appeals, whether or not you appeal to them is your choice. If you are determined to fight the matter, it'll be a case of waiting to see if they decide to take it to court.
Title: PCN from I Park, Mere Green (Sutton Coldfield)
Post by: DohRay on April 28, 2024, 05:41:13 pm
As the registered keeper of the vehicle, I have received a PCN from I Park alleging that an unpaid parking charge is due.
I have appealed through their web site:
The driver had simply stopped to be able to make a phone call to get directions to their final destination. While they stepped out of the vehicle to check signage and to determine their location for the purposes of conveying that to the other party, they never left the car park during the phone call, and exited the car park as soon as they had finished that phone call.
They have responded:
This appeal has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered and our records show that the PCN was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking.
Their standard response letter goes on:
Prior to leaving the vehicle it is the responsibility of the driver to ensure the 'pay and display' ticket is clearly on display and not dislodged or that the vehicle has been successfully recorded on the electronic system.
(my emphasis)


In hindsight, I can see that I could have worded my response better, noting that the driver had stopped to check signage, and having seen the signage they decided not to park there, which then led them to make the phone call. 
I Park have now told me that I can either pay the £60 or appeal through IAS (Independent Appeals Service).
I contend that the driver did not actually leave the vehicle, as they were no more than a few metres from it at all times, checking signage and location, so my lay reading is that no parking charge is due.
What further information would you need in order to be able to guide me as to my best next action?

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