Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Driver1010 on March 17, 2024, 12:47:38 pm
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Just stuck as to what to do now. I understand that I can take this further and await court action, I just don't know if my case is strong enough nor am I sure if I will even be around.
What a mess.
Don't have much longer until their cheaper bribe of pay '£60' ends either.
It has now been 2 weeks since I know I have parked in that area yet my latest PCN was dated 5th March. No further letters received. To my calculation, there should be at least 10.
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I agree re: signage. Driving past to the gym is a private car park for a shop and their signs are so clear at the entrance. The fact that this change to rules at this site was so substantial to people who frequent there, it is truly unfair for them to target people like this. There are so many people that I know who have been affected by this.
It is a blatant lie, isn't it! The price is totally unjust. Not that this makes any difference, but speaking to some workers at the gym they've mentioned how they've started to see some Jardines workers now even park in JD spaces.
The whole thing is just due to poor communication.
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This was their rejection letter.
The "'price' of parking" is a blatant lie. There is no offer of the right for those who do not enter their details to park for the price of £100 - the signs is prohibitive and states that the charge is for breach of the terms.
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Frankly, from the points we've discussed so far, the one that seems to have the most legs in my view is one around the prohibitive nature of the signage, meaning that no contract was formed.
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Annoyingly, two or three did. They got the driver when they asked via a dropdown menu: 'driver - keeper - hirer'
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The person liable is the driver.
Did the appeals name the driver?
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Annoyingly, I have no way to contact them besides calling an 0845 number (which I am sure they will place me on hold for a considerable amound of time) or writing to them.
Jardines are yet to receive a response from them.
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The person liable is the driver.
Uniquely, statute in the form of [Schedule 4 to] the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 provides that 'the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount [the parking charge] as remains unpaid'.
Nothing to do with the circumstances of the events, this is purely procedural.
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Morning,
So, could they not rebuttal and say 'that is irrelevant. You were still parked in our space while not registering your details at the kiosk.'?
I mentioned the camera faults in my appeal to which they do not acknowledge that aspect.
I also mention how they do not follow best practice of providing signs at enterances to notifiy of substantial changes, their neglible complaints process and they do not provide a template of how to appeal in their rejection letter as advised by CoP.
This was their rejection letter.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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H C Andersen, the OP has now addressed the issue of the timings on the PCNs four separate times:
The driver arrives around 6:10am and leaves around 8am each day.
As mentioned in other comments, the time gap seems to be around 10-14 minutes in terms of picture taken. To me, it reads as if perhaps they give an 'allowance' of some sort. The contravention time stamp is marked as the latter time. I, of course, stay at the gym longer than this.
I was not in the gym for 14-minutes.
But yes, the camera seems to be erroneous.
Unless they keep a written log of exactly when they enter and leave the gym each day, it's unlikely you're going to get any more specific timings than those the OP has already offered.
There is clearly an issue with the 'from' and 'to' times. From the photos, and the information provided thus far, it seems that the parking operator is using CCTV, rather than any sort of automated ANPR system. What I would suspect is happening (although this is of course my reckoning rather than necessarily fact), is that there is an operator manually checking the footage - they capture an image when they spot a vehicle parking up that shouldn't be there, then snap another once it's been there longer than the consideration period they offer (say, 10 minutes), essentially doing what a warden would do before slapping a ticket on the windscreen, but here doing it all remotely.
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Everytime I enter and exit the gym, I scan a QR code which should definitely be available data from my gym.
I agree @DWMB2. I fear that, if any anything, it just heightens the guilt.
But yes, the camera seems to be erroneous.
There seems to be only one camera - at least only one that I’ve seen. Top left of image. White one I think is CCTV.
I agree. If it was one ticket, I would be a lot calmer. 10, however…they may put some effort into it. I’m aware of their ‘discount’ tactics, especially as they threaten with the full price if you don’t take it to the ‘independent’ body.
Think I’ll continue to liase with Jardines - the company who employ EPS.
There are an immense amount of people also going through this at my gym and people still parking in those spaces! I try to warn them and I’m even considering placing notes on their cars.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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You can seek to use dodgy timings to cast doubt on the reliability of the parking company's evidence. One potential pitfall to navigate is how to do this in a way that helps - an argument that comes across as "I was actually parked where the parking company say I shouldn't have been for longer than they claim" might not help your case. But a case that uses the fact that their evidence doesn't seem to correspond accurately with the times the car was there, alongside the other arguments around signage and lack of contract (forbidding signage) might be more compelling.
I note you mention of being keen for the matter to be resolved before you move abroad - unless you have any luck with the IAS (which is rare), I'd be very surprised if the matter is resolved before then. Whether the company do issue a claim remains to be seen - I'm not sure how litigious they normally are, although 10 tickets can tempt them.
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The
bribe discount is offered in order to get you to pay into the scam. If there is a problem with the time stamps, can you evidence this? You say you were at the gym for longer than the time stamps suggest (likely as most people don't do 10 minute gym sessions).
Is there a log or anything at the gym that you check in with when you attend? Does your Google Maps app have your data for those dates? Does your car have an app that logs journeys. Can you provide any evidence of the times you were at the gym?
only you can provide this information. If, as you say and it appears, there is a discrepancy between the times that you entered and left the premises, that is a valid defence to have the PCNs voided. Do you know if it is the same camera that recored the entry and the exit or is it two separate cameras?
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Further, yes I would much rather have this sorted before I leave the country especially due to the assets I am leaving.
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My worry is that if I appeal further, the fine goes to £100. If I do receive the expected 10 (still awaiting 5 more which they are yet to send as I know I parked there on more days - latest being Wednesday 13th March, 11 days ago now, and according to dates on the PCNs received it can be up to 7 days that they issue the PCN), my total will be £1,000 which is an immense fine.
If not then, then court: but is my case strong enough?
I was not in the gym for 14-minutes.
Other PCNS timings:
6:19:51 - 6:31:53
6:16:09 - 6:27:21
6:21:44 - 6:35:15
6:12:14 - 6:24:30
Interestingly, the image in the photo provided as 'time out' has a time stamp on it that has the same time as the 'time in' photo.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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We still don't have answers to the following:
The 14-minute gym session, and
The elapsed times of the other PCNs.
Presumably if you are a teacher and are going abroad then you have a job, employer and place of residence. You might care to share this with the creditor now and say that you'll update them in the near future with the effective date on which all correspondence must be sent to this address. There is no reason for your parents' address (and them potentially) to stay in the firing line.
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Why do you suppose that just because your Plan B appeal to EPS and your Plan A request for Jardines to intervene is a "last hope"?
You still have Plans C and D.
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5th appeal rejected from EPS where I stated all the infringements mentioned by @b789.
Last hope is for Jardines to intervene. Any way I should go about that?
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Currently, my mail is sent to my parents' address which is where these PCNs were sent; so, yes. I will still have correspondence.
I am currently appealing the latest PCN and will state the infrigments mentioned by @b789
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I'm sure some others on here may advise differently. I would say get on with your life and see if the ever progress it further whilst ignoring all the debt recovery steaming pile of nonsense.
The only thing that I am mindful of is the OP's plans to move abroad for an as yet indeterminate period of time, whilst maintaining ownership of a property in the UK. In the worst case scenario, they could return in a few years to find a CCJ, obtained in default.
Will you have some sort of process for receiving and responding to mail issued to your UK address when you move?
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Got it. Thanks.
I’ll continue pursuing Jardines to try and get the PCN cancelled.
Will try and weather the anxiety of their letters.
I have 14 days after rejected appeal. So, should take me up to the end of the month.
Thanks again.
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Not particularly useful but those signs are pretty useless anyway. They fail in that the requirement to bring to the attention of drivers the charge is in minuscule font. They also fail the CoP requirements on signage and as there is no entrance sign to the car park they fail on that point too.
However, as you are dealing with an IPC member, any all appeals will be exercises in futility. There's nothing to stop you appealing, if you are still in time to do so, but it is up to you if you can be bothered. Personally, I would just wait and see if/when they ever bother to issue a county court claim. That is ideally where you would have the best chance of getting this concluded.
It does mean, however, that you will just have to weather a storm of useless but threatening debt collector letters which you can safely ignore. If/when a LoC is received, come back for more advice.
I'm sure some others on here may advise differently. I would say get on with your life and see if the ever progress it further whilst ignoring all the debt recovery steaming pile of nonsense.
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Apologies - I’ve just realised I’ve uploaded the same picture twice. I also took this one.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Natural conditions being daylight? I have already uploaded images.
Natural conditions being without the nearby car headlight? I've also uploaded that.
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Take a photo in natural conditions like you were told, that's a great next step.
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I agree. I wanted it to be even in situations where there were car headlights, the sign is still pretty unreadable.
I just need a next step, really.
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You're supposed to show how it looks in "natural" lighting conditions. Are trying to scupper any defence you may have by showing all and sundry how visible and readable the signs are?
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Car’s headlights. I took a picture of the sign next to it.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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What was the source of lighting for that photo? Was it that well illuminated at the time?
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So visible (there to be seen) and quite readable then.
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I’ve just drove past my gym area and thought I’d take a pictures of the signs in the dark as it would have been dark in February/early March mornings.
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Thanks for your consistent replies, guys. Really.
No idea about duration of my move. Moving to work abroad. It could be 1 year, it could be 10. I am a teacher so I could even decide to move to yet another country or come back.
Yes, my house which I pay a mortgage on will still be owned by me here. No dependants.
The only sign that is there is the sign that I posted in the Imgur link.
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So, depending on your answer to the question above by @DWMB2, we will have an idea on how to advise you to proceed at this stage.
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According to GSV, that sign has been in place for several years.
It also appears to be a UKPC sign.
From this image the OP uploaded it seems like that sign is no more:
(https://i.imgur.com/vh4kfu8.jpeg)
OP - a slight aside to the technicalities of the case... Returning to your point about moving out of the UK soon, a couple of questions:
- Is this permanent? What is the likelihood of you moving back within the next 6 years?
- When you move, will you be maintaining any financial interests/connections here?
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So, can you evidence that the sign no longer exists? Can you provide a photo showing that the sign is no longer there and that there is no other sign at the entrance that conforms to the requirements of the PPCs AOS?
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How did you get to that location as you have to pass a no entry sign unless you enter the car park the normal way and drive around the building, in which case you probably passed this sign (unless it is no longer there):
(https://i.imgur.com/QioYgPJ.jpeg) (https://maps.app.goo.gl/rWxhMX8mjRDPUPpT7)
Not that the no entry sign has any authority on private land.
This sign does not currently exist and I have never seen it.
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OP, you have not responded to my earlier point about the fact that there is an entrance sign that you pass that alerts the driver to the fact that there are parking restrictions.
According to GSV, that sign has been in place for several years.
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Also, I did not know it was not gym land otherwise I would not have parked there - especially not 5 days a week. The entrance of Jardines was around the corner and not even directly in front of where I park. The signage is small.
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But what is the relevance of the timestamps? Regardless, the driver was in that space. The letter does state 'entry and exit times' but there is no footage of my car leaving the spot at any point.
There evidence clearly is flawed, but does that actually help the driver?
I do not have all the time stamps to hand currently, but they are all between the times of 6:10am to 6:30am. One, I recall, registers the number plate at 6:18 and the second picture is at 6:32am. This is the longest time gap I have seen in the PCNs received thus far.
I have taken a picture of the sign put up by the gym recently as what I can only assume is in response to the influx of parking tickets.
The driver parks in the red - as they have been doing for years. Sometimes, in the purple which do have a 'JD' sign on the bottom but are not marked in green on this sign, pointing to inconsistencies.
Another gym car park is the bit in blue.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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To further clarify, when I say the buildings are 'next' to each other, I mean the orginal building (as seen on GSV) has been divided and now the right of the building is now Jardines. There is no physical space between the two buildings. The original space has merely been divided by an internal wall.
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The car park gets absolutetly jam-packed in the morning. The only other spaces are on the other side of the building which is shared by yet another gym. You would think that in the mornings there is an abundance of space, but there is not.
Could I drive all the way around and find a space further a way, perhaps. I will not neglect that aspect. However, naturally I chose to park where I have been parking for literal years.
To me, the sign was unclear especially during dark mornings. Sometimes it was even dark when I still left around 8am.
That is the point - it is not clear that it is not the gym's land. The lady on the phone today when I called Jardines remarked how bollards (which are never erected) had been installed and numbers in the spaces, but how was I now supposed to know that means the area is now cordened off? The fact that there are people complaining to Jardines daily makes it clear that there is a clear error on the part of EPS. I saw people parking there today!
As mentioned in other comments, the time gap seems to be around 10-14 minutes in terms of picture taken. To me, it reads as if perhaps they give an 'allowance' of some sort. The contravention time stamp is marked as the latter time. I, of course, stay at the gym longer than this.
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Perhaps a needed note: the company in which the driver allegedly incorrectly parked there, does not open until 9am meaning that the numberplate is unable to be registered at the kiosk.
The driver arrives around 6:10am and leaves around 8am each day.
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Which doesn't really answer..
To continue DWMB2's line...
I go to my gym 5 mornings a week and usually park in an area right next to my gym.
Why not outside the gym, after all GSV suggests it provides parking sufficient for early-morning numbers of users? Why 'an area right next to' on land which, whatever its history, is clearly not the gym's land? Why be, at least, a trespasser? If it's as straightforward as you did it knowingly because the gym spaces didn't afford you the opportunity to carry out XYZ manoeuvre when exiting and therefore you shaved N minutes off the time it took you to ****, then pl say so.
We're not talking about a one-off issue, your parking habits have persisted for some time. I'd find it useful to understand the context.
And to return to the glaring issue I raised earlier, how could you park, exit car, go to gym, complete a session, recover, return to car and leave within 18 minutes as shown in the PCN you posted?
This point has not been examined in the context of your account, but IMO it should because it challenges your account or the accuracy of their recording system. And what time gaps are revealed in the other PCNs?
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This is precisely the case.
It has nothing to do with JD Gym and all to do with the business (Jardines) who owns the land.
I have no business with Jardines and only with the gym, which is next to Jardines.
I made it clear to the person on the phone to Jardines and sent an email to the person I spoke to directly who asked for the appeal rejection letter and said that she will make a complaint. I directed her to links online that state that landowners have the ability to cancel PCNs to which she replied “I am not sure”.
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Whoever you spoke to, whether they are sure or not that they can get the PPC to cancel the PCN, will depend on who contracted the PPC in the first place. If it was the gym, then it may be worth getting something in writing from them about they getting the PCN cancelled.
If I were a betting man, my money would be on the busineess (Jardines) having contracted them, as a result of their staff struggling to park due to gym customers parking in their staff/customer bays. Worth the OP figuring out whether or not this is the case, though.
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Well, that is Plan A. However, a telephone conversation is not worth the paper it is written on.
Whoever you spoke to, whether they are sure or not that they can get the PPC to cancel the PCN, will depend on who contracted the PPC in the first place. If it was the gym, then it may be worth getting something in writing from them about they getting the PCN cancelled.
The easiest fob off is you being told that there is nothing they can do and to contact the PPC. At this point, it is often worth reminding the company with a question about who is the organ grinder and who is the monkey in their contractual relationship with the PPC.
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Update:
I’ve spoken to the landowners and they’ve agreed to raise a complaint with Euro Parking Services.
They say they have had calls/complaints everyday from people!
However, the lady on the phone seemed to think there isn’t much she can do.
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I took that image on foot, by the way.
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Yes, I’ll be moving out of the UK. Out of Europe.
Ah, I see the confusion. It is one way. A unwritten rule is if you park near enough the exit (hence why people aim to been park around that particular area where the contravention occurred), you can turn right and slip out through the one way.
If you’re further up, it’s usually frowned upon.
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How did you get to that location as you have to pass a no entry sign unless you enter the car park the normal way and drive around the building, in which case you probably passed this sign (unless it is no longer there):
(https://i.imgur.com/QioYgPJ.jpeg) (https://maps.app.goo.gl/rWxhMX8mjRDPUPpT7)
Not that the no entry sign has any authority on private land.
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However, I am actually due to be moving country in 6 months time. Will a court case be solved by then?!
Almost certainly not. Are you moving outside the UK?
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Got it. So. Each contravention has been for the driver allegedly not registering their number plate.
In regards to your previous question, you ask for entrance image. This?
This is the other side of the building (entrance of the offices) to which I never drive by and have only seen for the first time today.
As you can see, someone else is even parked there unbeknownst to them, perhaps.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Slight issue. The sign states something about parking on bays. As the lines of the bays are all over the place, I as well as other drivers don’t often adhere to the bay lines. Could they add that to the list of ‘offences’? Especially as sometimes my car goes over a handicap bay (the lines for the bay are unclear).
Each PCN can only be for whatever contravention is stated on the NtK. In the case you've shown us, it is:
(https://i.imgur.com/uIfU8UD.png)
You will have to see what each NtK states.
An unregulated private parking company cannot issue invoices for any "offences". They are simply invoices for an alleged breach of contract. Nothing "offensive" about that except the scamming ex-clamper trying to extort you.
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Further, the sign is amidst bushes so I couldn’t get any closer to it.
There is a sign a little further along, however, at the same height but not in bushes.
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Near impossible. Could barely read it on this clear day without having to zoom in.
Slight issue. The sign states something about parking on bays. As the lines of the bays are all over the place, I as well as other drivers don’t often adhere to the bay lines. Could they add that to the list of ‘offences’? Especially as sometimes my car goes over a handicap bay (the lines for the bay are unclear).
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And how visible/readable are those signs at 6am on a mid-winter day?
There is an entrance sign as you turn left into the car park. Picture?
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Here’s a link to all the signage!
https://imgur.com/a/O0RBYzy
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Yes, term change quite significant. Essentially: ‘don’t park in these particular spaces’. However, it is not made clear exactly which spaces it is referring to (it just places them near a section, which happens to be where I have been parking for years).
The signage is poor and unlit, especially for the dark mornings we have been having. Give me about an hour and I will drive over and get the signage.
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Evidential photos of what, to be exact?
Up to date photos of all the signage from the entrance and where you were parked. I really in the same lighting conditions that were at the time. Use natural light. No flash or headlights.
They can then be compared to what is in GSV and you could put the operator to strict proof as to when exactly the current signage was installed. Are there any significant changes to the actual terms?
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Evidential photos of what, to be exact?
I’ve appealed four and no doubt they’ll all be rejected. 2 have already. By my estimates, I have 5 more to come.
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In which case get evidential photos, preferably date stamped, tat can show the difference between the photos in GSV.
This may never get court. It may just escalate tot he usual debt collector letters which can be safely ignored. If/when it does get to a claim, depending on which legals they use, it can be easily defended using a template defence. However, we are a long way off that at this stage,
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The Google Maps is old and is not reflective of how the gym looks now.
Half the gym in the Google maps has turned into offices. The red lines are where the signs have been placed and where I park - and have been parking for years.
The restricted parking sign no longer exists and I have never seen it in person.
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Thank you, truly, for your advice.
While I have been to small claims court before (and won), this is a very daunting aspect. However, I am actually due to be moving country in 6 months time. Will a court case be solved by then?! At the end of the day, EPS have 8k definition pictures of me.
I definitely do plan to contact the company (Jardines) tomorrow. Although, I am bracing for a clear cut ‘nothing we can do’. Do they have power to cancel the PCN? Who do I need to speak to?
My gym are useless regarding this. All they say is ‘we have put up signs saying which ones are JD parking and which ones aren’t’, which, in their defense they have but it is at the entrance and looks completely the same as before. Seemed like they were just reasserting the rules rather than making it clear that rules had changed.
I’ll get signage images later today!
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The entrance sign (No unauthorised parking) has been in place at least since August 2016. When you say "the building next to my gym", are you saying that you were not parking in the gym car park but in another area at that location?
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@Driver1010, you must understand that appealing to the operator and then to the IAS will be exercises in futility. Normally, there are 4 plans of action:
Plan A: Get the landowner or business that contracted the PPC to tell their agent to cancel the PCN.
Plan B: Appeal to the PPC. Meh! ???
Plan C: Appeal to the PPCs IAS (The IAS in this case. POPLA for a BPA member). Double meh! >:(
Plan D: Have an truly independent arbiter, a judge in the small claims court, decide whether you owe a debt to the PPC.
Invariably, with IPC operators, Plan D is ultimately where you will win this. Ideally, Plan A is the easiest option and should be tried first. What has the Gym management said to you about it? Have you complained to them and told them that you (and many other members) are likely to take your business elsewhere if you are going to receive a speculative invoice for £100 from an unregulated private parking company every time you visit the gym.
Try and get up to date images of all the relevant signage.
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Enterance to the gym and red lines indicate where the signs are. I do not recall when exactly the signs were put up, but I very much doubt it has been 4 months.
Note: Google Maps images is 5 years old. Parking sign in attached images are no longer there. I may make the drive there today and show you all rather than waiting until I inevitably go tomorrow morning.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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This is really interesting! There is absolutely no sign upon the enterance. The sign is only near the parking space. There are also two signs (the same) next to each other.
It also does not clearly state which spaces it means.
Let me try and find a Google Maps image to demonstrate where the new signs are.
From the PCN, it seems as if the other signs are near the enterances of the office…to which are on the other side of the building.
Further, this may be noteworthy, bollards were erected a few months ago but there was only one day that they were ever up.
In addition, there are numerous gym members I have been trying to warn about this. We’ve been getting numerous PCNs all at once.
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If these are new terms and conditions for parking at this location, the operator is required under Schedule 1 (Signage) of the IPC CoP:
Changes in Operator's Terms and Conditions
Where there is any change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a person visiting the Car Park and which materially affects the Motorist the Operator should place additional (temporary) notices at the entrance making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur Parking Charges. Notices should be in addition to the signage ordinarily required and left in place for an appropriate period.
Whilst typical of the scamming nature of the IPC members, "appropriate period" is not defined. However, should this ever need to go in front of a judge, the lack of definition could be compared to the same requirement under the BPA CoP which is defined as "a period of not less than 4 months".
Interestingly, in the latest IPC CoP v9, section 25, Legal and Additional Obligations:
25.1 The Code complements the relevant legislation and related guidance, which will define the overall standard of conduct for all Operators. Operators must be aware of their legal obligations and implement the relevant legislation and guidance when operating their businesses.
Examples of relevant law and guidance within this sector are:
a) Consumer Protection Law;
b) Contract Law;
c) The Data Protection Act / The General Data Protection Regulation (EU) 2016/679;
d) Equalities Act 2010;
e) Occupier's liability both in statute and tort;
f) Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019;
g) Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, including Schedule 4;
h) Tort of trespass.
Whilst the PPCoP Act may be temporarily withdrawn, if the ATA says that the operator has an "obligation" and a requirement to implement relevant guidance, then they should be following such "guidance" as is intended to be implemented in law.
The (temporarily) withdrawn PPCoP section 3.4 states:
3.4 Material change – notices
Where there is any material change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a driver entering controlled land that is or has been open for public parking, the parking operator must place additional (temporary) notices at the site entrance for a period of not less than 4 months from the date of the change making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who might be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur parking charges.
Examples of material changes can include introduction of parking enforcement where none has previously applied, introduction of time-limited free parking, or reductions in the time limit within which free parking is available. Given the need to avoid confusion and clutter at entrances the test is whether the fact that a change has been made is clearly signalled to drivers on entering the land and the nature of the change is clearly displayed thereafter - it may also be necessary to install repeater notices depending on the scale of the premises.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice
Whilst the PPCoP is not retrospective, all non-monetary clauses are unchallenged by the parking industry. The DLUHC PPCoP will replace the self-serving BPA & IPC CoPs, which are not regulatory and carry limited weight. In a clear steer for the Courts and for the avoidance of doubt, the DLUHC say they are addressing ‘market failure’.
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Makes sense, thanks.
I assume there is no retribution for the fact that the PCNs were issued 1 week after each contravention and therefore allowed the driver to accumulate fines?
The driver is looking at around 10 PCNs in total coming to £600.
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Perhaps a needed note: the company in which the driver allegedly incorrectly parked there, does not open until 9am meaning that the numberplate is unable to be registered at the kiosk.
The parking company will seek to make this argument in their favour - the car park is for staff and visitors of the business, and as it was closed, the driver was clearly neither, and therefore not permitted to park.
However, a sign that offers parking to staff and customers only could be argued to be 'forbidding', as it doesn't seem to offer any consideration to those who are not staff or customers.
Photos of the layout of the signage will help to identify any arguments about a lack of prominence of the signage.
Both arguments above (forbidding signage, and not very visible signage) may have legs, but would likely need to be argued in court, as neither the parking company nor the IAS are likely to agree.
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Perhaps a needed note: the company in which the driver allegedly incorrectly parked there, does not open until 9am meaning that the numberplate is unable to be registered at the kiosk.
The driver arrives around 6:10am and leaves around 8am each day.
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I can provide an image of the sign I park near tomorrow, but this is what they 'took a picture of' and uploaded to the online PCN. I think this is similar to the sign I park near, but can't confirm exactly. The sign is quite high up on a post, too.
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We need to see photos of the signs as mentioned further up.
A problem with the cameras might not give rise to a "get out of jail free" card, especially if it's the case that the vehicle was actually there longer than is claimed.
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Right?! For all 5 PCNs, two images are provided with some sort of 10-14 min gap. No idea why.
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Hi. Here is the PCN https://imgur.com/a/62TRRmA
Wording is the same
I have appealed 4 out of the 5
My argument was unclear signage (font is incredibly small and I go during dark mornings).
The new office does not open until 9am and I leave gym around 8am, so no disturbance to them.
The images they provide are of signs I absolutely have not seen before.
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A couple of starter points to help us help you:
- Assuming the wording is the same for each notice, please upload a copy of one of the notices using a third party site like Imgur, redact personal info and the PCN number but leave everything else intact
- Please confirm if you appealed each PCN separately
- Please show us the exact wording of your appeal
- Please show us photos of the signage at the site - ideally a close up of the terms and conditions, a photo of any entrance signage, and photos showing the layout of signage and its visibility
- If you can send us a link to the location on Google Maps this might also be useful
If any more arrive, come here before appealing.
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Hi all,
I’ve been issued 5 PCNs from Euro Parking Services.
I go to my gym 5 mornings a week and usually park in an area right next to my gym.
In the 3 years I’ve been at my gym, the building next to my gym has never been in use. Early in Feb, I think I saw a sign stating something about registering your number plate at a Kiosk in the office. Going to the gym in the mornings means that it is very dark and as the font is SO small on the sign, I didn’t read it in depth.
I’ve now accumulated 5 different parking tickets for where I have been parking (I’ve been parking in that space for years!). It is seemingly now owned by offices in that building.
The first ‘contravention’ was on 26/2/24 but it wasn’t registered or posted until 7/3/24. If I had received the letters promptly, I would have stopped parking there.
The latest fine has been from 6th March (issued on 12th and posted on 12th), and I’m sure I’ve parked there a lot more since then, so more fines to come…
I’ve appealed the signage, to which they rejected. They said I can complain, simply said ‘go to our website’ where are digging and digging, I found an address but that’s their only method of complaint. That or an 0845 number…not even an email.
Anything I can do?