3. York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
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Author Topic: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted  (Read 1438 times)

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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #15 on: »
The councils will say all is perfection. The only place where this argument will get a consideration is at the adjudicators, and only if you make it one of your appeal points. In this case it would be under the statutory grounds of "procedural impropriety" in that they haven't followed the regulations for PCN content. In the regulation, the relevant clause used the word "must", not  "should", so the listed content must be on the PCN.
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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #16 on: »
Thanks Incandescent. I agree with your reading of it, so lets see how we get on. I'll let you know when there is an update from council with the NTO. Thanks.
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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #17 on: »
I agree this is one of the worst PCNs I've seen, and one of the worst informal rejection I've seen.

While I'm at it I have requested the traffic order for this location, the last case like this that I dealt with turned out not to have a valid order at all (at least not one the council could prove existed).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #18 on: »
Hello all.

The Notice To Owner has arrived. I was planning to submit an appeal on the grounds from the first informal appeal namely;

Quote
It does not contain the necessary information which is set out in The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022, under which the ticket has been issued.

The regulations prescribe in Chapter 3 Section 1, information about the motorists’ rights to make representations or appeal, which must be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices.

3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;

(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;

(c)that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

This notice does not contain sections B or C. Therefore, as this PCN is not compliant with the regulations under which it was issued, I request that it is cancelled.

NTO is attached below. Any thoughts / feedback etc would be warmly received.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/95glsyv9fb0yypgc0gied/Notice-To-Owner-redacted.pdf?rlkey=3tybs2h430sh8uq8izo6031y5&dl=0
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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #19 on: »
@twigtwig please post all the remaining pages of the notice to owner, as we need to check everything. Also re-post the first page with just your name and address redacted.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #20 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on April 21, 2024, 08:04:22 pm
@twigtwig please post all the remaining pages of the notice to owner, as we need to check everything. Also re-post the first page with just your name and address redacted.

My mistake CP, - full Notice To Owner attached.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/c3njixafsawtyju7slkx3/Notice-To-Owner-Redacted.pdf?rlkey=nqoss3bpnc1zdhn86zzz4kmcw&dl=0

Thank you,
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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #21 on: »
@twigtwig here you go:

Dear City of York Council,

I rely on my informal representation which I require you to reconsider afresh. Furthermore, there has been an additional procedural impropriety because the notice to owner does not satisfy the requirements of regulation 20(3)(a) or (d) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022 and instead it contains contradictory information in this regard.

Finally the notice does not conform to regulation 3(2)(f) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022, and plainly an authority cannot discharge its duty of conveying information that the notice "must" convey by saying that the information will be provided at a later date in some other document. This is a further procedural impropriety.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #22 on: »
Done, many thanks CP.
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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #23 on: »
Hi all, the appeal was submitted on 30th April. If I understand correctly, the council have 56 days to respond to it.

Am I correct in thinking that 56 days from 30th April would have been 28th June, and since this date has passed, the appeal will be allowed? Thank you.
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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #24 on: »
In theory, yes, but have you checked the status of the PCN. You should be able to see this on their website.  At the moment, a response to your formal reps may be in Royal Mail hands as I type. Postal delays seem to be commonplace nowadays.
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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #25 on: »
@twigtwig there is no appeal, you've only made a representation.

This is the PCN history on the council website:



Did you ever get this "acknowledgment letter"?

In any case it seems they've missed the 56 day deadline to issue a notice of rejection.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #26 on: »
Hello both. All comms from York have been via email. They sent through the Notice of Acknowledgement on 20th May, but nothing further received since then.
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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #27 on: »
Can we see this acknowledgment please?

In any case you're now safe to chase up for a reply, as any notice of rejection would be out of time at this point.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #28 on: »
Of course, please see attached link.

https://www.dropbox.com/t/8Er8xpd4Yd2jLtCw
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Re: York Main Street - Parked for Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #29 on: »
You can raise a complaint by writing to haveyoursay@york.gov.uk

You must start by spelling out that your complaint is not about the PCN and you are not asking under the complaints procedure for the PCN to be cancelled, you must make it very clear that you are merely complaining about the fact that you have not received a response. Therefore you must ask that the outcome of the complaint is that you are sent a response to your representations.

I'd suggest posting a draft on here first.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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