3. YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
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YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
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Hi

A friend received a PCN in a YBJ while giving way to on-coming traffic.

He appealed, and, surprise, surprise, they rejected it, with the next step being either to pay the discount or go to adjudication.

I feel the council is being unjust here, and he has a case to fight.

Any advice would be much appreciated here

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bB9mmQPUGRE

1 by Zee Aze, on Flickr

2 by Zee Aze, on Flickr

3 by Zee Aze, on Flickr
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #1 on: »
Someone else more helpful will come along but I'm pretty certain that the council would have no chance at adjudication.
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #2 on: »
This isn't a contravention and if they contest this at tribunal you should ask for costs.

The rejection is just fraud. 

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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #3 on: »
AFAIA, I thought you Ould enter a YBJ if you are turning right...?
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: deanlad on October 11, 2025, 10:30:19 pm
AFAIA, I thought you Ould enter a YBJ if you are turning right...?

Yes that's fine, but he wasn't turning right.
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: catnip on October 11, 2025, 10:42:41 pm
Quote from: deanlad on October 11, 2025, 10:30:19 pm
AFAIA, I thought you Ould enter a YBJ if you are turning right...?

Yes that's fine, but he wasn't turning right.
apologies..looking at wrong vehicle :o
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: catnip on October 11, 2025, 10:42:41 pm
Quote from: deanlad on October 11, 2025, 10:30:19 pm
AFAIA, I thought you Ould enter a YBJ if you are turning right...?

Yes that's fine, but he wasn't turning right.

He was the driver going straight on, who entered the YBJ when his exit was clear, but then was forced to stop because a truck which did not have right of way turned across in front of him?

Blimey.

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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: Innocentman on October 11, 2025, 11:30:51 pm
Quote from: catnip on October 11, 2025, 10:42:41 pm
Quote from: deanlad on October 11, 2025, 10:30:19 pm
AFAIA, I thought you Ould enter a YBJ if you are turning right...?

Yes that's fine, but he wasn't turning right.

He was the driver going straight on, who entered the YBJ when his exit was clear, but then was forced to stop because a truck which did not have right of way turned across in front of him?

Blimey.

Yes sir. Sorry sir.  :-X
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #8 on: »
No stationary vehicles causing the stop either.

No contravention.
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #9 on: »
+1
Their letter is complete tosh and indeed, mendacious, as it is a complete mis-statement of the law on YBJs. The person who wrote this tosh needs to be sacked forthwith.
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #10 on: »
Gotta say though that it really does look in the video like the offending car slowed dramatically, almost to a complete stop, before the truck turned in front of him.
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #11 on: »
That may be the case but it doesn't constitute a box junction offence. You can stop in there whenever you like, so long as your exit is free from stationary traffic.
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #12 on: »
OP, the law as regards the definition of the restriction imposed by a YBJ:

Box junctions
11.—(1) Subject to sub-paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), the yellow criss-cross marking provided for at item 25 of the sign table in Part 6 conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

Para. 11 Part 7 of Schedule 9 to the Traffic Signs etc. Regs refers: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/9

We don't need to worry about the exceptions, as far as this case is concerned the following apply:

Did the driver CAUSE their car to enter the YBJ? Of course, they deliberately drove into it;

Did the vehicle HAVE TO STOP due to the presence of stationary traffic? Of course not. Although the artic was stationary, the driver in this case did not HAVE to stop, they CHOSE to stop. Frankly they could choose to stop for any number of reasons, including bloody mindedness, but this would not be a contravention as regards the YBJ.

The definition is clear, there are no judgments or body of adjudication decisions to the contrary so take the stupid b******s to adjudication and ask for costs.

Step 1 - register the appeal.
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #13 on: »
see this relevant finding by the tribunal

2160310225

I have heard the appellant in person who I find an honest and credible witness. The Authority did not appear and was not represented.

The Authority has produced the details of a link to their website on which I have viewed CCTV footage. The footage shows that the exit lane of the box junction was clear when the appellant’s vehicle entered it. Further, it shows that the vehicle stopped only briefly in the box junction when there was sufficient space to move forward. The vehicle was not forced to stop in the box because of stationary traffic.

I find as fact that the exit lane was clear when the vehicle in question entered the box junction. I find as fact that the vehicle was not forced to stop because of stationary traffic. The components for the contravention have not been met. I am not satisfied that the contravention occurred.

I allow the appeal.
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Re: YBJ in walthamstow - Giving way to on coming traffic
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: MrChips on October 14, 2025, 07:30:49 am
That may be the case but it doesn't constitute a box junction offence. You can stop in there whenever you like, so long as your exit is free from stationary traffic.
I don't think they know what forthwith means in Walthamstow.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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